Elijah caught up to heaven???

by amac 17 Replies latest watchtower bible

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  amac

  Here is a question...The account in 2 Kings 2:11 (I may be off a verse or 2) refers to Elijah being caught up to Heaven by a fiery war chariot. The organization has explained several times that he did not die here but was transplanted to another part of the earth. Their proof of this is that "years later", "at least five years later" he writes a letter to King Jeho'ram of Judah. (2 Chron. 21:12-15) However, King Jeho'ram of Judah began his reign in the 5th year of the reign King Jeho'ram of Israel, so he could have wrote the letter before he was "caught up", unless he was caught up in the first 5 years of King Jeho'ram of Israel's rule.

  My question is, is their any proof that the society can base their explanation on? How do they know that what occured in 2 Kings 2:11 happened in the first 5 years of King Jeho'ram of Israel's reign and before King Jeho'ram of Judah took throne?

  And, please, no emphatic responses about how the "borg" are lying devils and of course it is not true. I simply would like to know if they have a basis for this explanation before I dismiss it. Too bad the organization doesn't have a Q&A on their web page, otherwise I would go there!

  Cheers,
  amac
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  amac

  It seems that the events at 2 Kings 2:11 COULD have taken place during King Ahaziah's reign of Israel, but there doesn't seem to be a way to prove it either way, which makes the societies explanation unfounded. Can someone please correct or verify this?
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  Yerusalyim

  AMAC, with your second post you've pretty much got the situation straight. The meaning for the Jews has always been that he was taken into heaven, not RELOCATED (Prophet Protection Program??) Anyhow, no not the Emphatic BORG IS LYING routine, but they HAVE to interpret it this way or the NO IMMORTAL SOULD thing falls apart. Just like they have to interpret the Witch of Endor raising the Spirit of Samuel as actually being the Spirit of a Demon, cuz if it's Samuel the No Immortal Soul thing falls apart. THis INSPITE of the fact that the bible clearly says it was INDEED Samuel, and God delivered a Message to Saul through this same Spirit of Samuel.

  
  YERUSALYIM
  "Vanity! It's my favorite sin!"
  [Al Pacino as Satan, in "DEVIL'S ADVOCATE"]
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  amac

  Thank you for the reply and I do realize that. The reason why I ask is if you were to pose this questions to a knowledgable JW, would they be able to provide evidence that the letter written by Elijah to King Jeho'ram took place AFTER the events at 2 Kings 2:11?

  Cheers,
  amac
• 

  Fredhall

  Yer,

  The soul dies. Eziekel 18:4. The dead cannot do nothing Ecc. 9:5,10. Your move dude.
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  amac

  Fred, are you saying the bible contradicts itself? If not, then what is the explanantion for what occured at 2 Kings 2:11?
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  Fredhall

  Read John 3:13
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  amac

  Read John 3:13

  So you ARE saying the bible contradicts itself.

  I fully understand the Organization's explanation of what happened at 2Kings 2:11. They say Elijah did not die but was actually transplanted to another part of the Earth. Their proof is that at 2 Chronicles 21:12-15 it speaks of a letter that Elijah wrote to King Jeho'ram of Judah, supposedly after the events in 2 Kings 2:11. However, there is no proof that this King Jeho'ram wasn't in power BEFORE 2 Ki 2:11? Unless you know of any? That is what I am asking...how do they know that this letter was written at a later date?
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  Yerusalyim

  Fred,

  Easy, first LOOK AT THE CONTEXT of Ex 18:4, what is the question the Lord is answering? THe question is whether a child suffers for the parents sin. The Hebrew TANACH translates it this was.

  "1 The Word of the Lord came to me: 2 What do you mean by quoting this proverb upon the soil of Israel, "Parents eat sour grapes and their children's teeth are blunted"? 3 As I live declares teh Lord God, this proverb shall no longer be current among you in Israel. 4 Consider, all lives are Mine; the life of the parent and the life of the child are both Mine. The PERSON who sins, only he shall die.........9 if he has followed my law and kept My rules and acted honestly his is righteous. Such a man shall live."

  The Hebrew Nefesh can ALSO mean PERSON, not just sould if we stick to the JW interp, then the righteous SOUL lives forever.

  More when I get back, I'll tackle the ECCLESIASTES quote.

  
  YERUSALYIM
  "Vanity! It's my favorite sin!"
  [Al Pacino as Satan, in "DEVIL'S ADVOCATE"]
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  Yerusalyim

  Fred,

  Also, compare Psalm 49:15 with what you've presented. "Like sheep they [the wicked] are herded into the nether world; death is their shepherd, and the upright rule over them.

  Now, how are the upright ruling ANYTHING in the netherworld if the dead know nothing in the sense the JW's mean.

  FRED ECC 9 indicates that the plans and concerns of the living mean nothing after death.

  
  YERUSALYIM
  "Vanity! It's my favorite sin!"
  [Al Pacino as Satan, in "DEVIL'S ADVOCATE"]