Millions die in Natural disasters - God is doing nothing. Do I adopt Anthropomorphism to him?

by KateWild 199 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • KateWild
    KateWild

    I love how you speculate on what 'athiests' will or will not do and their reasons for so not/doing Kate - you need to brush up on your critical thinking skills hun. - besty

    LOL!!

    Okay, I should have said many atheists may not wish to..................

    "I believe in Spinoza's god"-besty

    Wiki have quote mine the and it's disingenuous, as I have read

    "I believe in Spinoza's god, but I do not believe........................."

    We all to some level want confirmation bias besty, you are not interested in reading more because a wiki quotemined quote confirms your bias, I agree I am practising my crtical thinking skills, but I think you need to brush up on your critical thinking skills too mister lol. Kate xx

  • KateWild
    KateWild

    last person that I would accuse of talking nonsense.-Glad

    Most of what Cofty says is relevant and sensible, and very entetaining, but late at night on his current thread he has some nonsense mixed up with it, so I am afraid I disagree with you this time Glad, but thank you for respecting him, I respect cofty too. Kate xx

  • besty
    besty

    We all to some level want confirmation bias besty, you are not interested in reading more because a wiki quotemined quote confirms your bias

    "It seems to me that the idea of a personal God is an anthropological concept which I cannot take seriously. I feel also not able to imagine some will or goal outside the human sphere. My views are near those of Spinoza: admiration for the beauty of and belief in the logical simplicity of the order which we can grasp humbly and only imperfectly. I believe that we have to content ourselves with our imperfect knowledge and understanding and treat values and moral obligations as a purely human problem—the most important of all human problems."

    "I believe in Spinoza's God, who reveals himself in the harmony of all that exists, not in a God who concerns himself with the fate and the doings of mankind."

    "Scientific research can reduce superstition by encouraging people to think and view things in terms of cause and effect. Certain it is that a conviction, akin to religious feeling, of the rationality and intelligibility of the world lies behind all scientific work of a higher order... This firm belief, a belief bound up with a deep feeling, in a superior mind that reveals itself in the world of experience, represents my conception of God. In common parlance this may be described as "pantheistic" (Spinoza)."

    "I am fascinated by Spinoza's Pantheism. I admire even more his contributions to modern thought. Spinoza is the greatest of modern philosophers, because he is the first philosopher who deals with the soul and the body as one, not as two separate things."

    Make of Einsteins words what you will Kate - I think the reader will find more accuracy and value in my summary that Einstein was a pantheistic Spinozan that your "Einstein believed in God".

  • KateWild
    KateWild

    hahaha!! well done you win, enough said besty, king of the debate

  • konceptual99
    konceptual99

    As Cofty says, bringing these to the table is about as meaningful as an atheist appealing to Dawkin's position as some validation of their opinion.-K99

    What cofty says is about as useful as a chocolate fireguard on this thread. He has made one comment and is clearly applying a'morphism to God on his 37 page "God is cruel, because humans suffer" thread, and he did not answer my OP questions when he granted us with his presence on this thread.

    What Cofty says cannot apply to this thread I am afraid, unless he decides to say it himself, Dawkins is a fundie and wants to arm peple with his book so they can get atheist converts. Cofty knows what I have read and I have quoted to cofty why I think Dawkins is a fundie, book, page and chapter.

    Sorry Kate, Cofty and Besty - I made a mistake. I referred to Cofty when I meant Besty. It was he that raised the point about Dawkins. Anyway the point has nothing to do with Dawkins himself and what you or Cofty think of him. Besty had just pointed out that in the context of the OP, appealing to Einstein's belief is as relevant as an athiest appealing to Dawkins' personal views as justification for their own. The opinions of Einstein or Dawkins towards the existance and nature of any kind of "creator" has absolutely no bearing on how you or I should answer the OP.

  • cofty
    cofty

    Sometimes what cofty says is nonsense and he knows it - Kate

    If you ever think I have written nonsense please explain why specifically. I don't wish to be wrong any longer than necessary.

  • confusedandalone
    confusedandalone

    "Millions die in Natural disasters - God is doing nothing. "

    I think this thread should have just been the above and then locked. It makes a far better staement than anything that has been said in this thread. Not that I am disrespecting anyones opinion or anything, it's just that (theoretically) GOD has created a planet and does not give a shit about what happens to it or its inhabitants... yet you really want to debate how he should be viewed???

    It is obvious that GOD either:

    1. Does not exist

    2. Exists and doesn't care

    3. Exists and can not do anything about it

    Based upon these factors why would you care who he is, what he does or can do, what he says or anything else for that matter. He does not care about you and if he does IF HE EVEN EXISTED he is powerless to help you so why would you care. How much value would a personal phone call to the corpse of Henry Ford be to you if your Ford Focus was broke down on the side of the street?

  • besty
    besty

    i wasn't trying to win a debate kate - just doing what I can to help truth get to the surface - its all too easy on forums for truth to be the 1st casualty.

  • adamah
    adamah

    Kate, I agree. You get that Einstein was a genius, and part of that is expressed in his being a masterful diplomat who had to express his thoughts with exquisite subtlety (if only due to being German Jew who had to escape for safety in America due to widespread Nazi persecution of Jews).

    While being an observant Jew would have been bad enough, openly being an atheist for Jehovah God (which he was) was as even far greater of a crime, and being an intellectual was a far-worse crime. As such, he would say things like "I believe in Spinoza's God", knowing that most listeners would latch onto the "I believe in God" part, and never bother to investigate what Spinoza's beliefs actually were.

    The cynic would call it intentional obfuscation on Einstein's part, whereas the pragmatist would recognize it as an example of Einstein telling people what they wanted to hear, knowing they'd apply their pre-existing filters to hear what they want to hear in his words.

    You even cited another example of Einstein using hyperbole in a humorous way:

    After listening to a musician playing he stated out loud "Now I believe there is a God in heaven!"

    Clearly it would be flattery for an atheist to profess believing in God after hearing a moving performance, but it is obviously intended as hyperbole, since Einstein wasn't a frivolous illogical emotionally-driven man prone to such emotional sways as music (even though he was aware of the power and enjoyment found in music, as I do, as well, as an experienced musician).

    Kate said- Einstein was ambiguous and vague, but he denied being an atheist that we know.

    Yes, and even there, he expressed contempt for atheists after witnessing the example of how they were treated (esp such open atheists as Sigmund Freud, a fellow German/Austrian Jewish intellectual who faced much difficulty for his open atheism; Einstein certainly witnessed the dangers of speaking one's mind openly in WW II, and Einstein didn't need to be told twice, since he was able to learn from the examples of others in a time when many people were killing each other due to volatile disagreements).

    Point being, there's many reasons behind why someone makes a certain profession of their belief or non-belief, and the only thing we can go on is their own words.

    In fact, I'm not even sure if he was speaking of atheism in terms of his own "cosmic religion", as well, which he felt was the way of the future.... I'd have to go back and re-read the speech he delivered in context, or the essay that was printed in the NY Times, or the words he expressed denouncing atheists. I often say I'm an atheist for the God of the Abrahamic religions, but cannot conclusively state that higher beings (that some might describe as 'Godlike') don't exist somewhere in the Universe.

    (And when you think of it, we must seem Godlike in our powers as seen from the perspective of rodents. Do we or should we deserve their worship? Obviously not, since that would be silly....)

    Kate said- In conclusion Adam, I concede, I get your point and I will be more genuine and open in future. Okay?

    And thank you for acknowledging the issue, as that shows a sign of growth on your part.

    Adam (but no kisses for you back!)

  • adamah
    adamah

    Oh, on this:

    KateWild said: I have been told twice on this thread what label fits me, both Atheist and Theist, I believe I am niether. I simply believe in God

    Gladiator is right, in that statement makes you a theist, by definition. The term 'theist' simply implies that the person says they believe at least one deity exists.

    The term theist doesn't define WHICH God they believe in, or how many Gods they believe in (i.e. whether a monotheist, or polytheist), or say another about if they believe in a personal or impersonal God (deist), etc. Deists are considered a sub-type of theist, but they are still theists, nonetheless.

    Adam

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