Ben, if Holy Spirit is involved in appointments only insofar as the canidates honesty and how those recommending him discern that he meets the Bible qualifications, then couldn't a qualified man in ANY church be said to have been appointed by Holy Spirit as well?
Appointed by holy spirit
by Ben57 93 Replies latest jw friends
-
-
punkofnice
Holy spirit(TM)....it's just a cop out and control tactic. Pretend that Jehovah(TM) is running the show, an appeal to authority, sacred science...which ever cult control tactic and logical fallacy feel it is.
In the case of a JC, if it were really a judgenment from Jehovah(TM) then why is 7 days to appeal given? Hmmmmmm, sounds more like a legalistic thing as in the watchtower(R) wants to avoid lawsuits or scandals.
Come on, give us a break.......I was an elder, Jehovah(TM) never spoke to be by Holy Spirit(TM), visions, voices or text messages.
My conclusion is that God doesn't exist. Sadly paedophile protecting cult leaders do exist.......damn their eyes!
-
bats in the belfry
.
The spirit (...) can be compared to the electric current that flows through a machine or an appliance.
2001 The Watchtower, July 15, page 5
.
.
.
-
label licker
So, let me get this straight, it was HS that appointed and eighteen yr old ms after only studying for a year fresh out of the world. Same kid who him and his wife were both not baptised and were able to get married in the hall. The day he got baptised, they had two assembly parts that day along with being made ms weeks later. And so it was HS that annouced this kid from the platform with the elder announcing him and reassuring the audience that there was no simony here when approving him as an ms. This kid was looking after the po's house and dog while while po was down south for the winter for eight weeks like he does every winter.
It was holy spirit that made the above guys twenty-yearold friend who was just reinstated, made ms and then an elder, all within three years while older men who have been in this cult for years faithfully serving it not appointed. Oh, and within the three years this goon was able to take a four year course and get his papers and get married and have a kid. My my how does he do it except we were there to see how he licked labels and their boots.
It was HS that had an elder and his wife study with us DRUNK until we discontinued the study with them and then we were shunned.
Is it HS that directs the goon elders to reinstated a guy (relative to the two above) who is an alchoholic, fooled around on his wife, smashed his wife's car in by hand while drunk, threatens his relatives with loaded pistols in their faces that he's going to kill them (and has no gun license), has the cops after him and the family, and gets a highschool student employee to forge a legal document , all this before during and mostly after he's reinstated????? The elders did nothing until the week I posted what we knew here and in that same week they df the guy and come after us.
Is it HS that allows an idiot to serve while his sixteen yearold daughter gets pregnant to a worldly guy while this is going on under his roof and is able to have a part in the memorial? Yeah, bet Jesus just loved watching this guy give a prayer all the while his daughter is sitting there, pregnant and with her worldly boyfriend and the whole congregation knows. I guess someone forgot to tell the HS about that one.
If appointments were by HS then you tell me why the elders have to tell these idiots ahead of time before the gb sees the letter that they were just made servants and are waiting back from headquarters for a letter of the approval to go ahead and announce them from the platform???? And usually the elders wives are going around letting others know that they have access to this special news weeks before the letter comes back. We wouldn't have believed it if we hadn't seen all this and more with our own eyes. Tell me why a letter of recommendation supposedly went off to headquarters for me but yet the co said no for we were living outside the territory? The big mouth po said I was going to be made ms and they were submitting the letter in but co said no. They make the holy spirit look messed up just like society's teachings.
Jehovah's holy spirit is not on any religion. Religion is satan's tool not the bible. Get out of her my people if you don't want to share in her sins and plagues. Did society lie? Yes! Do I want to be apart of the plagues that Yehovah will strike her with when he comes back? Absolutley not! Nor now am I not apart of her sins. Glad to be rid of this wicked wicked cult.
-
leaving_quietly
Come on now people get real and use your God give powers of reason none of those quotes that have been given show that the holy spirit (apart form what one knows from the Bible) has any active roll in the sense of a]getting up and doing something. The active roll is simply in people remembering what is already said and then applying what has been said in the Bible
We have shown you quote after quote that WTS DOES teach this. If you re-read my post, you'll see where the instructor told elders that the holy spirit can act on a person or move a person to do something. If this isn't "active", I don't know what is.
I want to address this part, specifically, that you said:
The active roll is simply in people remembering what is already said and then applying what has been said in the Bible
Now, compare this with what Jesus stated at John 14:25,26:
While remaining with YOU I have spoken these things to YOU. But the helper, the holy spirit, which the Father will send in my name, that one will teach YOU all things and bring back to YOUR minds all the things I told YOU.
According to Jesus, that IS an active role. Your argument goes against what Christ himself said.
Whether the holy spirit actually does have any role whatsoever in appointing elders in the JW religion is another issue altogether. However, since you asserted that WTS does not teach that holy spirit has an active role, well, I and many others here disagree. It does teach that.
-
leaving_quietly
Ben57, maybe you should define what you mean by "active role". While this is an interesting debate on this thread, it seems to be a bit lopsided, because we're just not getting what your definition of "active role" is. If you mean that WTS never teaches that the holy spirit enters someone, they jump up and down and act all crazy-like, and then a decision is made, you are right. WTS does not teach that. WTS teaches that holy spirit is 'God's active force' (note the word ACTIVE in there).
rs p. 381 par. 1:
The correct identification of the holy spirit must fit all the scriptures that refer to that spirit. With this viewpoint, it is logical to conclude that the holy spirit is the active force of God. It is not a person but is a powerful force that God causes to emanate from himself to accomplish his holy will.
BTW, WTS does teach that 'bringing back to your minds' as I quoted the verse in John 14:26 above, is an 'active role' of the holy spirit:
w08 9/1 p. 12:
The Gospels, as well as the rest of the Christian Greek Scriptures, were not written immediately following the death of Jesus. Matthew apparently wrote his Gospel about 7 or 8 years later, and John wrote his about 65 years later. How were they able to record the words and deeds of Jesus with unerring accuracy? Clearly, God’s holy spirit played an active role in guiding them. (John 14:16, 26)
-
wasblind
" wasblind, you qouted from the reasoning book page 384
If Someone Says______
'Do you have the holy spirit ( or the Holy Ghost ) ? '
You might reply : ' Yes , and that is why I have come to your door today '
Or you could say : ' That is what makes it possible for me to share in the Christian ministry '
.
Now all that is saying is that by following the direction of the Bible to preach we are following the direction of the holy spirit_____Ben57
.
.
NO Ben. The WTS canned question specifically has the householder askin' the JW at the door, " Do you HAVE( not follow ) the holy spirit"
and the Jehovah's Witness canned answer said " YES"
.
.
" What is the holy spirit ?
A comparison of Bible texts that refer to the holy spirit shows that it is spoken of as ' filling' people; they can be 'baptized' with it; and they can be " Annointed " with it . None of these expressions would be appropriate if the holy spirit were a person "____Reasoning from the scriptures Book page 380
.
Ben. Think. People are said to be filled wit the holy spirit . not follow it around
.
.
" Not because the holy spirit in some miraculous way has literally moved the individual "_____Ben57
Ben. The WTS disagrees. Read thier canned reply. They said " This is what makes it possible for them to ( Literally ) share in the ministry "
.
.
" But because that individual has read the Bible that was inspired by holy spirit and following the direction to preach.____Ben57
Again BEN. People are said to be FILLED wit the holy spirit . It is said to be an " Active force " within them that causes them to do.
.
.
The WTS claims they are a " Spirit directed organization "
but also claim they are not inspired
.
.
You can't separate inspiration from the holy spirit Ben
they are one in the same
.
.
Just as the holy spirit inspired the writers of the Bible
.
.
-
DATA-DOG
Ben, are you taking Z-quill while trying to read the WT CD-Library??? Be careful bro, that's dangerous...
Look, If you are saying that there is no way that the Holy Spirit actually plays a role in the KH's then everyone here would agree with you. Now, if you are saying that the WTBTS does not teach that Holy Spirit appoints men, then you are incorrect. I would say that the only role the Holy Spirit plays is in the lives of individuals. Like if you are manifesting the fruitage of the spirit, ect... Perhaps it is playing a role in giving the WTBTS leaders enough rope to hang themselves with.
Just for the record, the WTBTS DOES TEACH that men are appointed under the direct influence of the Holy Spirit. Please read all the responses carefully.
DD
-
tootired2care
So when you're baptized you agree to be "in association with only organization that strives to live by spirit". Oh wait, that's not what they say do they? They say in association with "gods spirit directed organization". The present tense verb "directed" can only mean here that jokehovah magic is at work in their behalf. These men are delusional, and they really do believe and teach this. Accept it.
-
DesirousOfChange
DATA DOG: Just for the record, the WTBTS DOES TEACH that men are appointed under the direct influence of the Holy Spirit. Please read all the responses carefully.
That is exactly right!
Thus, Judicial Committees make decisions that simply represent the decisions already cast in Heaven.
Wanna know what is even more ridiculous? They believe it!!!! (So did I!)
Doc
