Appointed by holy spirit (page 2)

drewcoul

Ben, you are seeing classic WTS double speak and you are defending them! They never say anything about "outward appearance." Those are your words, not the WTS's. Either the elders are appointed by Holy Spirit or they are not. The Watchtower says they are. I believe they are not.

As you can see, you can quote the WT and someone with an opposing view can quote a WT, but the WT says two different things. THey want everyone in to pay attention to elders and to view their appointment as being from Holy Spirit, but because this is so obviously not the case with so many elders engaging in wrongdoing at the time of their appointment, they must also say that they "give evidence" of producing the fruitage of the spirit. However, Paul laid out the qualifications of being an elder, and he NEVER mentions: Field Service time; Bible studies conducted; comments at the meetings; activity at quick builds; circuit assembly or district assembly parts; pioneering or a list of other things that JW's think are necessary to be an elder. They go far beyond things written.

jonahstourguide

Isn't there a passage in the Elders Manual where the gov bod remind elders to be careful with

their recommendations as the gov bod rely on the elders information when approving the appointment?

So, to me, it seems that the elders decide who can join their circle based on what they SEE. Is that not also

unscriptural? Which leads me to the obvious question in my mind. If the holy spirit appoints the annointed and we are not

allowed to question that, how is it that those directly charged with protecting the sheep can be scrutinised and appointed

by fellow humans?

jtg

jonahstourguide

study wt 15 nov 2013 page 22 para 5 " This includes cooperating with the spiritual undershepherds he has appointed" Its speaking

about jesus here.

Then para 6 on the same page says "The same is true of christian overseers today, since they too are appointed

on the basis of scriptural requirements inspired by the holy spirit"

This thread is interesting as the concept of whether the holy spirit actually is at work.

We continually get from the platform how we follow the lead of "spirit appointed men".

To me it seems the meaning of" holy spirit appointment" is as loose as "generation"

jtg...... I'm off to the pub

Ben57

In the quote from w02 3/15 p.14 par.7 Christ Leads His Congregation: “ The recommendations and appointments are made after prayer and under the guidance of the holy spirit. “ That is. telling us that when those men seek “ the guidance of the holy spirit.” they are not looking for some supernatural occurrence they are looking at the Bibles standards and guidelines. By praying they are making sure that they have the correct frame of mind looking to the holy spirit (Gods word) to see if the man being recommended fits (seems to fit) the requirements.

If anyone actually thinks the WTS is saying that the holy spirit actually has a say or hand in appointing someone then you are delusional. And I feel so sorry for you.

I guess that is the problem with many that are on this forum. How many have actually though the WTS teaches that, and, when things go wrong, and human imperfections pokes up its ugly head - they stumble and say to themselves " how could they be guided by this mystical holy spirit and yet make mistakes this must be a sham for how could they make a mistake if Gods holy spirit was actually having a guiding hand" and so they get all upset and run away and cry and look for some comfort from others that see only human inperfection.

Yes I am an active JW in good standing. Yes I believe in the holy spirit as it was used in creation and writing the Bible.

Comatose

If you are active and "in good standing" then go tell on yourself for being on this board.

jwfacts

Ben you are wrong. No doubt you recognise the stupidity in the Watchtower teaching that holy spirit guides the appointments, so are trying to justify it, but you contradicting the meaning of the Watchtower quotes. Of course, the Watchtower speaks with a forked tongue, so says at times it is just by following the spirit directed bible standards, but other times they can be no doubt as to the intended meaning.

"Elders, for instance, are appointed by holy spirit. (Acts 20:28) But not all spirit-anointed ones serve as overseers in the congregation. What are we to conclude from this? Simply that God’s spirit operates in different ways on members of the congregation." Watchtower 2011 Dec 15 p.25

"Under the direction of the holy spirit, Branch Committees recommend mature, spiritual men to serve as circuit and district overseers. After being appointed directly by the Governing Body, they serve as traveling overseers. Traveling overseers submit reports to the branch office. With the help of the holy spirit and the inspired Scriptures." Watchtower 1990 Mar 15 p.20

"We are living also in the time of final fulfillment of the prophecy to which the apostle Peter referred on the day of Pentecost (Joel 2:28, 29, AS; Acts 2:16-18) We should therefore expect the spirit's activity to include appointing overseers . In consideration of the spirit's fruitage produced by the candidate and in harmony with the written requirements set out in the Holy Scriptures written by men under the operation of the holy spirit, the governing body acts, being itself moved by the holy spirit for which it prays to God that it may guide the governing body. So today as well as in Paul's day it may be said that the holy spirit appoints overseers over the flock of God that he purchased "with the blood of his own Son."" Watchtower1958 Jan 15 p.45

Likewise with disfellowshipping.

"In addition, Jehovah's angels can maneuver matters so that any who cause others to stumble are removed from among Jehovah's people." Watchtower 2007 Mar 1 p.24

That is a direct statement that the organisation insists it has supernatural direction.

You speak about delusion. Delusion is someone that is basing their life on following the Governing Body, unable to contradict their commandments, if you think they are not guided by holy spirit.

jwfacts

See http://www.jwfacts.com/watchtower/directed-by-holy-spirit.php for quote about how the preposterous GB claim they are directing by Holy Spirit to come up with doctrine, despite so many of them having been wrong.

Ben57

drewcoul read what I said and I quote " [ on outward appearance - my words] " I put those words in [ ] and said that they were my words. When man are appointed it is imperfect men looking at imperfect men. The only real guide that they have is what they see. What do they see? the outward appearance - only what the man up for appointment wants them to see - the men making the suggestion for appointment do not know what is going on inside the mind of the one they want to "promote"

Maybe I am being to polite with what I have said but I do not think much of many elders. I know to many that see their position as one of authority. That was also mention many times on the thread about “who here is an elder” Too many of those elders that replied to thread were of the opinion the WTS taught that the holy spirit had an active roll in appoint men. I say that is rubbish. That the WTS does not teach that.

Ben57

jonahstourguide seems to get what I am saying he gives this resent quote “"The same is true of christian overseers today, since they too are appointed on the basis of scriptural requirements inspired by the holy spirit" Where are the scriotual requirment? IN THE BIBLE. The Bible is inspired. NO MAN IS not even the GB. The GB are SELF APOINTED men to that possition.

Comatose

Why don't you ask one of the local elders in your hall if they feel the local elders are appointed by Holy Spirit and see what they say? I know what they will say. I want you to hear it and then make your argument to the local elders you are in good standing with.

Appointed by holy spirit

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