by bchapp 49 Replies latest jw friends
bchapp, you are in an enviable position right now. You have not yet committed yourself to anything, so you can freely research non-WT literature and ask questions without repercussions.
Don't allow yourself to be pressured into doing anything that makes you uncomfortable.
Hi Bchapp,
I could hug your neck. I was pretty much where you are just a couple of mos ago. I've never been baptized either but I studied for years and questioned many things. After finding out some of the things I have, I simply can't go back.
There are links at the bottom of the page that are very helpful. I haven't read either of the Ray Franz books but many say they are very good. I'm in a hurry now...I wish I had more time to say more things. I'll have to come back and comment more later.
Welcome!!!
"Half the world is composed of idiots, the other half of people clever enough to take indecent advantage of them."
-Walter Kerr
Hi Bona Dea, I'll be looking forward to hearing more :)
Begin with the name "Jehovah" or "Yahweh"
Jesus AVOIDED using either name and so did the Apostle Paul!
Jesus keep calling God "our heavenly Father". Everytime he did,
he avoided calling him Jehovah.
Look at the Lord's Prayer - It says "our Father who art in heaven,
hallowed be thy name" - he didn't say "Jehovah, hallowed be thy
name".
When Jesus referred to God's name, he wasn't referring to the
name Jehovah. He was referring to God's power, authority or
reputation. In John, Jesus says "I have made your name manifest".
That simply means he made God manifest to his disciples thru
his miracles and teachings - IT DOESN'T MEAN HE TOLD THEM THAT
GOD'S NAME IS JEHOVAH! How do I know? Because they already,
had to know what the name Yahweh/Jehovah was since they were
Jews - with names like Elijah or Jehoshaphat.
At the most important event, his death, Jesus avoided using the
name "Jehovah". He quoted the Psalms where it says "My God,
My God, why have you forsaken me?". He could have quoted any
scripture that DIRECTLY mentioned the name BUT DIDN'T. He also
may have said "Father, forgive them for they know not what they
do."
In the Aid book, it admits that when the Bible refers to God's
name, it often doesn't mean "Jehovah" - as in Ezekiel, when it
says "they shall know my name".
Paul avoided using "Jehovah" or Yahweh because he said "there is
actually to us one God, THE FATHER, and one Lord, Jesus Christ"
There is no solid evidence from any manuscripts that early
Christians used the name "Jehovah" to any great extent. The
Society's claims to the contrary are just speculation and
guesswork - unlikely at that, as you can see from the above
quotations.
Jesus wanted to establish a universal faith, where all people
would simply address God as their Father, not a Jewish tribal
religion.
metatron
Good points Metatron, I hadn't even thought of those. Thanks for bringing it to my attention :)
Also remember that nowhere in the new testament was Jehovah's name written. Even the dead sea scrolls do not mention Jehovah by name. Your descision is yours thus like others here I recommend you do your own study. One thing I know about JW is they like to ignore FACTS. You can ignore all you want but a fact will always be there.
Sure we would all love for you not to be a JW because most of us know the ramifications of such a descision but it is up to you. Good luck.
Dear Lord, please save me from your followers.
Hi I was just reading the bible and I found a great verse its in Psalms 83:18 let me know what you think.
You asked:
They have been pressuring me to become one of them, but something seems to be holding me back, instinct maybe?Instinct shouldn't be a deciding factor. After all, animals are governed by instinct. Jehovah expects us to use our powers of reason to discern from the Bible and determine what his will is for us.
JW's use the scripture Hebrews 10:25 not forsaking the gathering of yourselves together...... to justify their meetings. Did the early Christians gather together for 5 meetings a week every week?It seems that in some cases the 1st century Christians met every day. For example Acts 19:9 says that Paul gave daily talks to the brothers in a school auditiorium. That's not to say that that was always the case, the fact is there was no set pattern in Scripture. The thing is though that the purpose of "not forsaking the gathering together" was for the purpose of encouraging fellow believers, so as often as they gathered, be it daily, or weekly, or whatever, the principle is that we would want to be there.
Then there's the issue about going door to door, they say that's how it was done in Jesus' day, but did Jesus use car groups?They didn't have cars in Jesus' day, but of course you knew that. Jesus did, however, send them out by twos---on foot. And he instructed them to enter into any home that welcomed them, and to leave any home or village that didn't. That's simple enough isn't it? They went from town to town and house to house. It doesn't really matter what method of transportation is used as long as we go, as Jesus commanded.
Why does a God how loves peace call himself "Jehovah of Armies"? Or shouldn't it really be Yahweh?Jehovah also refers to himself as "a manly person of war." That's not inconsistent with his being the God of peace. Eccelesiates 3:8 says that there is "a time to love and a time to hate; a time for war and a time for peace." Jehovah loves peace, but the fact is that there are many wicked creatures, some human, some super-human, who hate God and who always fight against Jehovah. At some point, Jehovah is going to have to confront Satan and his minions head-on in what is known in the Bible as "the war of the great day of God Almighty"---also called the war of Armageddon.
And then there's the Sabath, why do the sneer at other religions that follow the Sabath, isn't it important? How many times is the Sabbath mentioned in the bible as compared to say Birthdays? Does anybody have any suggestions, comments or answers?The Sabbath was part of the Law that God gave to the Jews. When Jesus was sacrificed he brought an end to the Jewish Law covenant that Jehovah had established with Israel. The books of Romans, Galatians, Colossians, and Hebrews, go in to great detail in establishing that Christians are not under any obligation to follow Jewish law.
/ You Know
Metatron says:
Jesus AVOIDED using either name and so did the Apostle Paul!
That's simply not true. At Luke 4:18 Jesus directly read from Isaiah 61:1 where it says: "Jehovah's spirit is upon me....
As for Paul supposedly avoiding using the divine name, at 1 Corinthians 10:26 the apostle quoted verbatim Psalm 24:1, which says: "To Jehovah belong the earth and that which fills it."
The name Jesus literally means: "Jehovah is salvation." Clearly, then, you are wrong.
/ You Know
In the Aid book, it admits that when the Bible refers to God's
name, it often doesn't mean "Jehovah" - as in Ezekiel, when it
says "they shall know my name".
Yes Metatron, thank God for Ray Franz, co-writer of the lovely Aid book, which sought to support fact rather than WTS dogma.
/you know said
Instinct shouldn't be a deciding factor. After all, animals are governed by instinct. Jehovah expects us to use our powers of reason to discern from the Bible and determine what his will is for us.Well, first of all, we should use both. Instinct is important to use, but society and religion generally discourages it, so it sits and becomes an unused muscle. Unlike many claim, it is not "spiritistic" or "demonic". Elsewise God wouldn't have created this inborn sixth sense within us.
And, of course, YK is right in saying that God expects us to use our God-given brains to discern stuff. Remember that when you're reading the next WT copy. Reserve for yourself the right to DISCERN and actually see for yourself what's wheat and what's tares.
And, finally, remember that the Bible itself is full of mistakes and human error (that's what makes it believable): just because an apostle says something in the first century, don't assume it's endorsed by Jesus. Apostles often adjusted thinking on matters as they went on in life. What was done then should/shouldn't be copied today, depending on the circumstances and in accordance of what Jesus DIRECTLY taught.
In reality, our load is LIGHT, and people trying to add extra burdens/requirements were condemned by Christ. Nobody on their own can measure up to perfect requirements. That's why we are saved by a gift of grace, not works. There are people out there who truly cannot deep down believe this is true, and the way they treat their fellow man betrays this.
Just remember, the boyz making the rulez in Brooklyn always have this niggling thing to require TWO-THIRDS majority to sign off on anything; this makes change slower than reversing the Titanic, and causes unneeded heartache and suffering. If you read Ray's book, he goes in to eloquent detail in all that supposedly "spirit-directed" men really do behind closed board-room doors.
