How would you respond?

by MsGrowingGirl20 18 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • jwfacts
    jwfacts

    It is very hard to prove to somewhat what other religion or doctrine is correct whilst they still believe the Governing Body are directed by God, and pointless to try. You need to determine what you want to acheive by the email. How you respond will also be determined by whether you still believe in the Bible or not. Here is one potential approach.

    "Since you firmly believe that the Governing Body are directed by God, it is pointless for me to discuss ideas about religion with you. You would not agree with anything I say that contradicts Watchtower teachings, because you are not allowed to. Such a discussion would only be meaningful if you first do a thorough investigation into the history and doctrine of the Watchtower. If after such investigation you find that you no longer can trust the Watchtower to be God's channel, then I would be more than glad to discuss with you alternative viewpoints about truth and religion."

  • Fernando
    Fernando

    Personally, she seems to be a thinker, potentially open-minded, and willing to respectfully and calmly engage you and your thoughts.

    I would "impute the best" and respond in kind, after reassuring her of your friendship and love.

    Maybe she could be asked some sincere and simple questions?

    • If the followers of the "true religion" call themselves "publishers of the Good news" can one rightly expect the "Good News" according to Paul, Moses, Isaiah and Psalms to be in their hearts and on their lips?

    • How would one explain their unfamiliarity with the "Good News" according to Paul, Moses, Isaiah and Psalms?

    • What is the "plan of salvation"?

    • What if "the truth" is more to do with "the truth of the Good News" than with doctrinal positions on the trinity, hellfire and immortality of the soul?

    • In how many verses does Paul discuss the correct view of the trinity, hellfire and immortality of the soul?

    • How many of the Bible's references to "Good News" are by Paul? What percentage is this?

    • How many times does Paul refer to "Good News" and "Kingdom" in the same sentence? Why?

    • In his books "Religion" and "Enemies" how many times did JF Rutherford refer to "true religion", and how many times "false religion", and how many times "all religion"?

    • Consequently is it true or false that JF Rutherford taught that all religion is a snare and a racket?

    Actually, if you use the above, you may want to acknowledge that it is quite a mouthful and you may have to both work patiently through it without any outside "help" (using instead only the Watchtower library on computer, and pdf downloads of Rutherford's books).

    I pray for a good outcome in your communications and relationship.

    Greetings

    Fernando

  • OnTheWayOut
    OnTheWayOut

    I am right in line with what jwfacts said.

    On the education part, she said a slight contradiction:
    In terms of your pursuing secular education I don't think people condemned you for that. Is that the right word? Did you feel like that? Why I ask is that Asa is pursuing her degree and I also know of another sister (in our congregation) that is pursuing a Masters and I don't think they feel like that. I know the other sister said she was strongly discouraged from doing it but still she went ahead and I don't think that she necessarily feels judged. Again I don't know if that's the right word because I'm not too sure what exactly your feelings are concerning the reaction from the congregation. I do think your assumptions about the elders are incorrect though.

    So, which one is it? Is the one sister "strongly discouraged" who went ahead anyway right or wrong? Did the elders and/or congregation strongly discourage her and then support her decision when she didn't listen? Or how is she being "not judged" now? She's probably feeling "marked" for going against strong discouragement.
    Your friend doesn't know the right words because she's going through dissonance over obedience to the rules and her friends trying to better themselves through education.

    I get your reasons for asking the forum about this. You seem to have a golden opportunity to help a friend. But truly, your friend is still very much stuck in the JW mindset. Just answer from your heart after reading others' thoughts on this and hope for the best.

  • OneDayillBeFree
    OneDayillBeFree

    I'm not gonna lie, but I had to read this more than once (about 5 times to be exact) just to get my thoughts together and be as unbiased as possible with regards to how I would personally respond if this email had been sent to me. Sorry if I seem to go all over the place but it's 3am here right now and I'm having trouble sleeping anyway...(:

    Dear friend,

    I'm glad that you want be open and honest with me. Those are truly some of the best qualities that every human being shares with one another in a long lasting friendship. While I understand why the brothers and sisters acted the way they did with me, I can't deny that they're actions didn't hurt me pretty deeply. I hope you can understand. But I prefer that we just leave that alone, as you mentioned in the beginning, you were not going to try to defend anyone but only speak for yourself, and I think that's what matters most anyway.

    I want to thank you for your sympathy, and for wanting to help me in one of my lowest points. It really means a lot to me that you wished you could've "carried some of the weight". And although I don't believe condemned was the right word to describe it, I don't really think that it's something that could easily be put into words anyway. Condemned, rejected, damned even, it's almost all the same to me.

    Also, who's to say how Asa or that other sister really feel about the choices they made? Although I agree that she might not necessarily have felt judged, who can say, with utmost certainty, how they really feel deep down? Many times at the hall or in service, you may smile and laugh and act all happy but only God knows how you really feel inside. I'm sure you've felt this way sometime or another. But again, as you stating in the beginning, you were only going to speak for yourself so it's best not to get into that.

    I'm sorry if I didn't explain myself correctly when I mentioned that I didn't believe that there was only one true religion. Firstly, I don't believe that there's any list I could make that could constitute a true religion. I mean, if you take Christianity in its entire form, you could probably gather a list of common beliefs and doctrines from the thousands of denominations, since they all revolve around the Bible as their source of Devine authority. But if you take the eastern hemisphere and add Judaism or Hinduism, even Buddhism to the equation, you would just wind up with a mess of conflicting beliefs, since they base their fundamental structure on the Torah, the Koran and other forms of Devine ancient writings, not to mention them being polytheistic or pantheistic. You see, I believe that their is no single true religion in this world.

    I believe that all religions have their flaws. But their messages are all positive for the most part. If your willing to open yourself up a bit, you'll see that Jehovah's Witnesses are just a tiny, little fish in an enormous ocean filled with other fish, both big and small. I really wish you could see that that way, if only for a second.

    I understand if you don't though, so it's okay! The reason why I use the word God instead of Jehovah is a personal one. The best way I think you could understand it is by reading Matthew through John completely and counting how many times Jesus actually called God by that name. Also I wanted to just remind you of the complete definition of the world religion; the belief in and worship of a superhuman controlling power, exp. a personal god or gods. A particular system of faith and worship. Again, there's more to it than just what we pick and choose.

    It's also good to note that Noah, Abraham, Moses, Job, David, the 12 apostles, Paul etc. and all the others mentioned in the bible we're chosen by God to direct his people or to fulfill his purpose. He did not just sit back and let imperfect humans self appoint ourselves changing and flip flopping beliefs, changing what's true all the time. So it makes you wonder how and when JW's were chosen without a shadow of a doubt by God.

    Like you said in the end everyone must decide for himself which group is the true one, and I couldn't agree more. But anyway, I just wanted to let you know that no matter what it is you believe in, or what it is you choose to do with your life, I will always be there for you, whether you need me or not! I hope you can see this the way I see it and don't judge me just like I've never judger you. Just take this as me being open and honest with you. I want you to know that you'll always be one of my dearest friends.

    Sincerely,

    OneDay

  • The Searcher
    The Searcher

    Rather more succintly and to the point, I'd email this:

    "I do not believe there is a single religion anywhere not telling untruths - the WTBTS included. If you'd be be willing to discuss these with me, maybe you'd prove I am wrong in my thinking, and I'd welcome that.

    The apostle Paul didn't say there was "one religion", he said there was "one faith", (Eph. 4:5) and I have that faith - that Christ is my Mediator, my ransom, my salvation, my judge - but certain men living today are usurping his authority and teaching contrary doctrines!"

  • Fernando
    Fernando

    Great letter OneDayillBeFree.

    Especially at 3am.

    You could/should be a writer.

  • OneDayillBeFree
    OneDayillBeFree

    Thanks Fernando!

    I read it again this morning and I think it's not too bad myself, for 3am anyway lol.

    I hope it's of some use to Msgrowingirl20 though...

    Maybe I'll write more when I'm awake haha!

    OneDay

  • Hortensia
    Hortensia

    I read your post not long after you wrote it, but didn't really have any answer. It's interesting to read the ideas other folks have given you.

    I don't think there's anything you could say that would change your friend's mind. I guess your answer to the email depends on what results you want. To reveal your true thoughts by answering those questions completely would certainly cause your friend to think of you as an apostate.

  • MsGrowingGirl20
    MsGrowingGirl20

    Thank you all for the responses. Will let you know how it goes.

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