The life differences between a good christian and good athiest

by EndofMysteries 79 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  EndofMysteries

  Let's compare a christian who goes to a non judgemental / non guilt trip church which focuses really on the gospels, Jesus teachings on being non judgemental, anything out of love there is no law against, and they contribute to society.

  Then an athiest who if you put side by side w/ the above christian, you would not know any difference unless you asked their beliefs.

  Both are good people, who are able to lead lives doing what they want, enjoying their life, and trying to help their neighbors too. Both contribute and/or do charity.

  What are the benefits/differences/negatives one will have above the other?

  For example, since the christian is not part of a religion like JW's where the men are guilt tripping them or restricting their life based on their own personal ideas, that christian has freedom to lead a fullfilling enjoyable life and they don't fear their eventual death as being the end of all, they have a hope for life immediately after death or at some point in the future. Whether it's true or not, they did not miss out on anything in their life and will die in peace. And if they happened to not have done all they wanted, they atleast have a hope.

  On the athiest side, they may have an equally fullfilling life, but on their deathbed, there isn't, whether true or not, any hope for another life. If they missed out on anything, it's too late and no hope.

  Those who are now athiests.......do you wish you could have the freedom you have now, but still have a hope of an afterlife?

  I made this post because there are many posts recently about athiest vs christian or believers battles and I think this is the root motivation for them.

  On the athiest end, they see ALL religion like that of JW's, so those who are still believers they try to wake up and save them from ending up somewhere else like the JW's.

  On the christian/believers end, they see that when out of the JW religon and ones like that, one can have very happy lives and they have a future hope as well, and all athiests will do is rob somebody of their hope for an afterlife. No extra freedom or benefits than they already got once out of JW's, but just taking that away.

  Am I missing anything here on either side?
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  cofty

  Occasionally a believer will throw in Pascal's Wager which will be met with the derision it fully deserves, but speaking as an ex-JW and ex-christian I am certain that an afterlife is not relevant to the debate.

  There is no such thing as an innocuous religion. Even the most liberal church has a dehumanising message at its core.

  We are NOT sinners. We are NOT broken. We are not FALLEN. We do not need saved or forgiven or reconciled to an invisible deity, and please stop telling children otherwise.

  On offer is all of reality. It is truly marvelous.
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  DJS

  This comment has been addressed recently; are you serious about it? It is similar to a parent taking the hope of Santa Claus away by telling them (finally) the truth. Does the child look forward to Chirstmas less? Maybe, I don't know, but how is it relevant.

  Haven't you read some of the amazing freedoms and benefits derived from being out of ALL religions? I like myself and my life 1000 times more than when I was a JW and a somewhat post-JW Christian. And guess what? I'm good for goodness' sake; I don't need, nor do I want or desire, a carrot/stick to make be behave. I figure this life is all we have, and I live every day to make it meaningful. It has also been pointed out on this forum that empirical data suggests atheists are better behaved and more moral than theists. I have the reference material if you would like. So I'm a bit confused as to what points you are trying to make.

  And if I 'rob' someone of a hope, it wasn't too strong in the first place. If I 'rob' someone of a false hope because of the evidence, science and rational discussions I and other atheists make, I see that as a good thing. A very good thing. I may be missing something you are trying to say.

  all athiests will do is rob somebody of their hope for an afterlife. No extra freedom or benefits than they already got once out of JW's, but just taking that away.
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  EndofMysteries

  Okay, so Cofty, are you happier believing you will have no future whatsoever than if you believed you would have a life again?

  Option 1: explanation of death is sin or first stage/testing in life to move on to higher phase or whatever, but our life doesn't end here.

  Option 2: this is it.
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  DJS

  A good atheist is a more highly evolved human than a good Christian, generally speaking. It is what we all should aspire to being. Relgion keeps man closer to the cave than to fulfilling the potential in our DNA. Once I grasped that concept, it made religion all the more useless. And if it turns out that there is an afterlife, who would your god rather have walking through the pearly gates? Someone who followed orders waiting on a reware or someone who was good simply because it was the right thing to do? This isn't complicated; theists make it so. I wish the lurkers and theists reading this would think.
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  EndofMysteries

  DJS - It's nothing compared to Santa. What I am saying is I understand trying to free people who are enslaved to religions that hold them back from leading a happy fulfilling life and having freedom to make their own choices.

  I have some family who have left JW's, doing all they want, and somewhat become athiest, and even though they are free doing whatever they want, there is a deep sadness in them that this is it for them.

  How is one 'happier' in that state? I'm not athiest but here is what I would see the phase from JW to that as being.

  Phase 1 JW - controlled, guilt trip on everything, unable to make your own choices.

  Phase 2 - ex JW free thinker/believer - non controlled, go on the teaching that there is no law on anything out of love, free to make own choices and lead happy life and look forward to a future life.

  Phase 3 - ex JW athiest - freed same as above but remove the looking forward to a future life.
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  cofty

  EoM - This is, as you say, it.

  Life is far more precious when you stop thinking of it as a rehearsal.

  there is a deep sadness in them

  I would suggest they would be sad regardless.
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  Qcmbr

  Honestly - death scared the sh&t out of me as a believer , I used to wake up at night in a cold sweat suffering panic attacks. For whatever reason ( I suspect not talking about death and judgement on a weekly basis has something to do with it) I hardly ever think about death any more. Either way I will go through perfectly normal fear as my end approaches. I do miss the companionship and friendship my church gave me though.
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  FlyingHighNow

  I know atheists who believe people will contiue on after they die here. They don't believe it's a heaven or hell thing, just a continuence of consciousness and intelligence that lives on in some plane or zone or dimension.

  An interesting note is the Universalist, religion or believer who does not espouse any of these:

  We are NOT sinners. We are NOT broken. We are not FALLEN. We do not need saved or forgiven or reconciled to an invisible deity, and please stop telling children otherwise.
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  cofty

  An atheist who believes in life after death is like a vegetarian who eats chicken and fish.

  The last line of your post is an appeal for the emotional abuse of children.