by Julia Orwell 62 Replies latest jw friends
Keep going with him Julia. But don't let it make you ill. WMF, is so right about asking WHY?. The Neanderthal angle is great. They actually had language skills. Who did God create first, the Neanderthal or Adam and Eve? Were they Neanderthals?
I believe in God myself, so to answer these questions I personally conclude that the Bible is not from God and it's full of rubbish.
Stay patient, it's nice to see you are trying to help someone and he is still engaging. Well done
Kate xx
They put a lot of effort into misunderstanding whatever you say.
It is willful ignorance and so reasoning is not the solution. They believe they are special & any foreign idea that threatens that sensation will be sabotaged.
Realizing you are not "special" is the beginning of reasonableness.
Julia Orwell +1000
I've been having those kinds of conversations with some of my closest (and trustful) jw friends, as well with my parents.
My conclusion is this: most people in general (at least in an under-educated society) lack the ability of critical thinking. I don't mean it's genetical. One can obtain critical thinking by going to the universtity or even by reading a lot by themselves. However, lack of critical thinking + average jw = lack of critical thinking ^ 2. One who has critical thinking, or at least tries to, is much easier to talk to and pose arguments. My jw friends that I CAN discuss those things with possess critical thinking up to a point, due to the fact that (a) they went to university and (b) they read TONS of books.
Not hard to see why the wts discourages (a) and (b) in particular.
As for the Neanderthals, yes they were a different species (although very close-related), plus they interbred a lot with Homo sapiens. Most with European ancestry for example, have an average of 2.7% of Neanderthal DNA in them. I know this is true for myself for sure, as I recently had my DNA sequenced, and yes it showed a 2.7% of Neanderhal DNA. Here's an anti-Bible evidence that flows inside our bodies! (hard to shake off that kind of evidence, huh?)
Anything too hard to answer is ignored
Don't give them a choice of questions to answer. Pick one. Make it a good one. Already know the official answers. Don't let them change the subject.
"I'll have to do research on that
Get them to promise it by a date. Remind them. Lots. If they want to start another subject, ask why they haven't answered this one. Make them feel guilty for any trickery they are using to weasel their way out of providing you with the research they promised.
Feign being offended that they would try using such a tactic on their own flesh & blood, spouse, whatever you are.
As a child I was punished for asking questions. If I ask "why?" The answer was, "You KNOW the answer to that question, you were raised in the truth, go to your bedroom, pray and study, come out when you have the answer! I'll teach to ask, WHY!"
Now I KNOW they didn't know the answer to my questions.
Gosh, imagine squelching a child's curiosity like that.
I am married to an illogical man, remember. I throw in one-line zingers. He roars with laughter or throws his hands in the air.
If I were engaging a new JW one-on-one, I'd stick with one issue and not let go. Often the Witness will tell you themselves what their big issue is. All I have to say is, "Well, I have issues...." and let the sentence trail off. People hate silence, so they'll fill it for you.
If the JW wraps up the circle, it means that their inner cultist is threatened. La, la, la they ain't listening any more.
I used to get very frustrated b/c my Witness relatives or classmates simply lacked the basic sets of objective facts taught in school. It happens here with believers. They will state something which is simply not true. If you press for details, you are a bitch. It becomes strident. I don't understand it here. Everyone here has Internet access. The Neanderthal and homo sapiens mix has been big news. Also, the right wing people refuse to accept objective facts. When I ask for neutral sources, they decline. Admittedly, I am now used to a culture where everyone is informed. We could use a broader range of opinions. The birthers were in a case in point. I suppose people have a right to be ignorant. My book citations annoyed some believers. Facts don't matter.
One can travel far in certain circles and find informed people. It seems to drop off quickly. College and law school taught me to analyze things in a certain manner. Some people like repartee about beliefs. Others just want to left alone. I can't imagine any litigant's lawyer telling the Supreme Court justices in oral argument that they have no right to ask questions.
I would like to engage with a wide range of beliefs here. William F. Buckley could set forth his position with flair. My law school was progressive. Sometimes I battled left wing fascists. We had one conservative former Marine who was conservative. He could take on anyone with facts. It was a blessing to be challenged by him. There isn't much challenge here.
Of course, one can be a believer and not believe in creation. Evolution is settled.
Wow I just did some reading about the Neanderthals. They were so cool, and that DNA evidence doesn't lie.
I wish they were still around today. How good would that be?..
......................IOh they`re still here..
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...............You haven`t met my ex Mother-inlaw..
...........................Mrs.Ugg the Horrible..
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...OUTLAW
