Why do so-called believers need my approval or that of any atheist?

by Band on the Run 47 Replies latest jw friends

  • Band on the Run
    Band on the Run

    Tammy,

    You do not ask for restrictions on who can apply. It is hard to keep the cast of characters straight sometimes. I was wrong to include you as a "believer" who wants to restrict posts only to other "believers." Frankly, people I thought you had your own forum. I last visited it when it was locked to outsiders about six months ago. It seemed to be thriving. Granted, you only had a few visitors but there was a core group. Also, during this time an "athest" group started their own forum. There was a lot of spying and pettiness. I fled the "atheist" group b/c my gut told me it was far worse than the "believer" group. Looking back, I believe so even more strongly today. Mind you, reading content on your site sent my head spinning. I needed oxygen. Sometimes I wondered if entered an alternate universe. You did not set up your forum for the likes of me. My honest assessment was that if that was what you want to believe, fine for you.

    The recent demands for exclusivity on this forum seemed to be forum shopping for new recruits. I don't know any of us in real life. You don't seem to be aware of how many WT beliefs you retain. It doesn't matter.

    This is not my site. I would not want to lose the opportunity of reading your beliefs when you are not preaching at me. Why can't we share being former Witnesses b/c that is about the only thing we have in common. The atheists and you also share the same experience. There are definitely class wars going on here besides the theological ones. Perhaps the theological ones are merely class wars, too. It is sad. I am not changing classes. My choice was made decades ago. I value scholarship and the fine arts.

  • cofty
    cofty

    There are definitely class wars going on here besides the theological ones

    I don't see it.

    I dislike any attempts to define groups. Everybody should call each question and issue as they see it without fear or favour.

  • tec
    tec

    Thank you Band for that acknowledgment.

    I don't actually think there are believers who want to restrict this forum to believers only... although there may be a couple on either side who wish the other side would just go away at times ; ) Or at least stop with the personal attacks and insults.

    I do run another forum with Aguest, but that does not mean that members of one site cannot post on another site as well. Our site has also never been closed to the public, but we did have to switch hosts around six months ago, so perhaps you tried to visit and the site was just no longer there. I tried to email all of our members with the new site address then, but some of the emails failed.

    (I'm a former study though, not a former witness... I did not actually get baptized. Just so you know.)

    Peace,

    tammy

  • Violia
    Violia

    I don't need anyone's approval. It would be nice if believers or other groups ( people who like tarot and things of that sort) did not have to contend with abusive posts from others.. This is especially true when the thread is geared toward believers and not a debate thread. Sometimes groups just like to talk among themselves but it seems some can't let that happen. Someone must jump in the thread to make sure all of the believers know they are very ignorant or just plain stupid. The folks who like tarot and things of that sort can't even have a discussion without mean posts.

    We can all understand if you don't agree, but why bother other folks who just want to talk? Can't the atheists talk among themselves?

    Or does everyone who does not agree with your version of religion have to be set straight?

  • Violia
    Violia

    BTW, the word "you" is a universal you, not directed specifically at you BOTR. .

  • Ruby456
    Ruby456

    gooodmorning to you cofty - Mr demon atheist

    botr said

    There are definitely class wars going on here besides the theological ones. Perhaps the theological ones are merely class wars, too. It is sad. I am not changing classes. My choice was made decades ago. I value scholarship and the fine arts.

    I've said something similar but prefer to think of the diferent standpoints as coming from aspects of lived experience that includes political, economic, scientific and theological factors.

  • OneGenTwoGroups
    OneGenTwoGroups

    I have learned many good reasons and seen the evidence to believe that the human to tendency to believe in woo is what provides the foundation for JWs, Scientologists, Mormons, Jim Jones, Strong Town, Waco, Moonies, etc, etc, etc.

    Some of you may see a huge difference between a liberal Christian and JWs, I see very little. I can make a list for you, if you wish.

  • Band on the Run
    Band on the Run

    I am a child of the 1960s. When I said there are class wars here, I meant what every TV station, newspaper, and magazines refer to as America's "culture wars." The social science is also clear. Certain socioeconomic classes tend to be most comfortable and select certain types of denominations. Other factors are at play. There are exceptions. Geography is one huge factor. For instance, in Manhattan, most people choose to be atheists/agnostics or mainstream Roman Catholic or Protestant. Wherever you go, it seems everyone is reading The New York Times or the current New York Times bestselling books. When The Last Temptation of Christ was released, the RC Cardinal announced that no one should see it. Martin Scorcese and the film's producers must have been in seventh heaven. People came out of the woodwork to see the film. Banned books always sold well in New York.

    When I moved to a Mennonite (sort of like the Amish) pocket in Pennsylvania, things were very different. First, almost everyone attended a church and many times a week. More conservative (the very terminology is class based) and rigid churches were popular. From an emotional standpoint, though, these churches provided a deep sense of community for its members. Social life revolved around the churches. When a new highway was built connecting to the area to Philadelphia, a lot of Philadelphia people moved into the area. There is ongoing conflict between the more cosmpolitan Philadelphia people and the farmers whose families settled the area.

    The Pew Foundation tracks these factors in a neutral fashion. For the most part, different levels of education prefer different worship experiences. The social scientists do not believe that any one form of worship is better than another. Birds of a feather flock together. An intellectual understanding is important to me but the trade-off is that I miss a more emotional connection. Anglicans, Presbyterians, Lutherans are not known for their warmth or cozy feeling. I envy the churches that are more embracing ---but can also be suffocating. There are so many books describing this factor.

    I am certain I chose a more sterile denomination and a one with looser doctrines precisely b/c of my WT experience.

    I never heard of liberal Christians. The term I hear and use is progressive Christianity. Progressive Christianity, as I see it, promotes social justice. No one views the Bible as inerrant. They tend to be umbrella churches with loose doctrinal formulations that include rather than exclude. Sermons are gentle. I used to joke that the sermons were PBS programs. Every once in a while, Jesus was mentioned. Last Sunday the Bible readings included a passage often used by the Witnesses. I felt uncomfortable. The priests know how to use a phrase and turn it something that does not bother me. Specifically, it was Jesus speaking of the last days and how many will proclaim the end but no man no knows the hour. Jesus instructs his followers to beware such false teachers. The application to the Witnesses spooked me. I kept reading the text b/c I never noticed it before even tho the Witnesses quote it extensively. I would say the Sojourner Community was an excellent example of progressive Christianity.

    Pls I would love to hear your take on progressive Christians the WT b/c in my mind I see no parallels. It feels a night and day experience. There may very well be parallels that I don't see. Sometimes it takes an outsider to see things.

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