Could this be a plan to slowly back out of flawed chronology of 455 BC as the 20th year of Artaxerxes and refashion the 70 weeks interpretation?
Feb 15 study W/T up on jw.org
by konceptual99 40 Replies latest watchtower bible
-
-
Doug Mason
Most interesting. Thank you, Ann for telling me about this.
The writer of this Watchtower takes a position on the "70 years" that runs counter to the position taken in the July 2012 Awake. I wrote a response to that article, which is available at:
http://www.jwstudies.com/Is_Awake_accurate_about_Messiah_s_anointing.pdf
This latest Watchtower article upholds points that I made in my Study. The other Study I wrote in response to that July 2012 Awake is available at:
http://www.jwstudies.com/Did_Israel_s_ruler_come_from_Bethlehem.pdf
Regarding the birth narratives: the earliest writers, Paul and then Mark, do not mention the birth. Neither does John. That leaves us with Matthew and Luke. When their stories are laid side by side, there are several incompatible contradictions. Were Jesus' parents already living in Bethlehem or did they have to travel there? and so on and on. Would a responsible husband expect his heavily pregnant wife take that journey? Why does history show that the "census" did not take place in the required year?
How did these writers know the details? Luke was neither present nor was he an immediate disciple.
The reality with Matthew is that he invented a story from selected pieces of Hebrew scripture (sound familiar?), distorting it at times, misapplying passages and so on to make them fit his predetermined outcome (familiar story?).
Overall, it is most probable that Jesus was born in Nazareth, not in Bethlehem.
Doug
-
DATA-DOG
How can the Apostles be precursors to the GB of today, but NOT be part of the FDS?!?!? Were they not taking care of Christ's domestics??
DD
-
Doug Mason
The other issue related to the "70 years" was the date when Jesus was murdered. By cutting Daniel 9 loose from reference to Jesus, the WTS is now able to better align with conventional scholarship. For example, only from the "John" Gospel can one deduce that his ministry lasted 3 years. The Synoptists would indicate it lasted a few months, perhaps as long as 1 year.
I see the WTS's comments at pages 1722-1723 of its 2013 NWT that it has dropped the term "impaled" with reference to Jesus' death. (see also "impale" at pages 660 ftnt and at page 1713). This is another issue I repeatedly had raised here - little doubt that the WTS learns a lot at this site from you guys!
None of these corrections will deter me. I will continue until the WTS drops its practice of "shunning" (and the associated measures) and its inhumane lies about the medical use of blood and its products.
Doug
-
mind blown
1. QUESTION? Is there any proof the 1st Century Jews or the Essenes where actually trying to figure out a date of the Massiah's arrival?
2. QUESTION? Wouldn't it make more sense that Jesus became King after the the BiG A , or even after the 1000.00 years, or right after he died???
I can't believe I'm even asking these questiona. One thing that always REALLY bugged me was after the 1000.00 years, satan was going to be let loose.....after all that heart ache to re-test people......
It's been soooooooooooo long since I've studied any of this stuff......
-
yadda yadda 2
Carl Sagan above on Jehovah's Witnesses & 1914.
"RELIGIONS ARE TOUGH....THEY QUICKLY REDESIGN DOCTRINE AFTER DISPROOF."
-
DS211
All i know is this
Hebrews 1:8
But about the Son, he says: “God is your throne forever and ever, and the scepter of your Kingdom is the scepter of uprightness.
the WT chang this from ither bibles that say something like "your throne, my god".either way to me the same meaning is implied....God is the position Christ would attain...
the WT also uses things like saviour and King towards both Jehovah and Christ.
Now to answer your question mind blown
1 cor 15:25
25For he must reign, till he hath put all his enemies under his feet.
and of course verse 26 brings out the last enemy he will take away is death....
now ut doesnt necessarily bring out that Christ became King at his ascension to Heaven. But according to some scholars it could mean that after the fall of Jerusalem in 70 AD. Again who can really be sure 100%. Based on the societies claims and twists and turns its most likely not 1914 lol. But since its claimed to be invisible i can tell you whatever and you cant verify.
I wish i could help more but thats all ive come up with so far!
Yadda---great articke feom carl sagan. Ill tell you what kept the. With adherents--the "love" they displayed tkward one another and the use of coercive tactics to have that love and follow Ritherford or else you were a heathen apostate. And over a span of some years, without technology people woukd forget alot of what happend and new people would have their ears tickled and be drawn. Doesnt everyone want to be part of the elite? Lol
-
AnnOMaly
I've now had chance to look a little more at the WTS's past comments on the '70 weeks' and the 1st c. Jews' expectations of the Messiah.
Doug already mentioned the July 2012 Awake! which connected the Jews' expectations with their understanding of Daniel 9's '69 weeks,' and erroneously or misleadingly used Hillel Silver's work to support that idea (Silver actually argued that the Jews' expectations about the Messiah had to do with other prophecies - not Dan. 9).
It looks like the only clear basis for the WTS's previous assumption the 1st c. Jews were using Dan. 9 comes from Matthew Henry's Commentary, dated to c. 1710, and a French one from 1888.
w98 9/15 pp. 13-14 pars. 16-17 'Times and Seasons in Jehovah’s Hands':
By means of his prophet Daniel—a man of unwavering faith—Jehovah had given a prophecy involving “seventy weeks.” That prophecy would enable first-century Jews to know that the appearance of the promised Messiah was approaching. ...
... Whether first-century Jews knew precisely when the 483 years began is open to question. But when John the Baptizer began his ministry, “the people were in expectation and all were reasoning in their hearts about John: ‘May he perhaps be the Christ?’” (Luke 3:15) Some Bible scholars link this expectation to Daniel’s prophecy. In commenting on this verse, Matthew Henry wrote [re: Luke 3:15-20]: “We are here told . . . how the people took occasion, from the ministry and baptism of John, to think of the Messiah, and to think of him as at the door. . . . Daniel’s seventy weeks were now expiring.” The French Manuel Biblique [p. 191], by Vigouroux, Bacuez, and Brassac states: “People knew that the seventy weeks of years fixed by Daniel were drawing to a close; nobody was surprised to hear John the Baptist announce that the kingdom of God had drawn near.” Jewish scholar Abba Hillel Silver wrote [pp. 5, 7 of Messianic Speculation in Israel] that according to “the popular chronology” of the day, “the Messiah was expected around the second quarter of the first century C.E.”
Also,
w99 8/15 p. 21 par. 9 'Jehovah Prepares the Way':
As to the setting in the first century, the prophecy of the 70 weeks of years, found at Daniel 9:24-27, pinpointed the year when the Messiah was to appear—29 C.E. Though first-century Jews did not understand the exact timing of matters, they were in expectation, awaiting the Messiah. (Luke 3:15) The French Manuel Biblique states: “People knew that the seventy weeks of years fixed by Daniel were drawing to a close; nobody was surprised to hear John the Baptist announce that the kingdom of God had drawn near.”
w95 11/1 pp. 10-11 par. 4 'Saved From a “Wicked Generation”':
About the year 539 B.C.E., God’s prophet Daniel was given a vision of events that would occur during the final “week” of a period of “seventy weeks” of years. (Daniel 9:24-27) These “weeks” began in 455 B.C.E. when King Artaxerxes of Persia ordered the rebuilding of the city of Jerusalem. The final “week” started with the appearance of Messiah, Jesus Christ, at his baptism and anointing in 29 C.E. God-fearing Jews of the first century C.E. were well aware of this time feature of Daniel’s prophecy. For example, concerning the crowds that flocked to hear the preaching of John the Baptizer in 29 C.E., Luke 3:15 states: “The people were in expectation and all were reasoning in their hearts about John: ‘May he perhaps be the Christ?’”
w86 10/1 pp. 5-6 'Daniel—An Authentic Book of Prophecy':
The Revised Standard Version, Ecumenical Edition, reads: “Seventy weeks of years are decreed concerning your people.” ...
... Because of this reliable prophecy, first-century Jewish people “knew that the seventy weeks of years fixed by Daniel were drawing to a close; nobody was surprised to hear John the Baptist announce that the kingdom of God had drawn near.”—Manuel Biblique, by Bacuez and Vigouroux.
-
mind blown
DS211 Thank you. Yes, that would make more sense.
WT "Could the first-century Jews have calculated the time of the Messiah"?
I could be wrong but I gather so far from what's been posted, they were ONLY in expectation, I've yet to see proof they sat around and calculated a time. Of course the WTS would put in that subliminal question to make their false calculations seem exceptable ......
-
Emery
It hurts my brain trying to understand apocalyptic cult calculations.
