John 3:16 - "believe" or "exercise faith?" Same thing?

by Faithful Witness 30 Replies latest watchtower bible

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  Faithful Witness

  I recently asked my JW mother, if she believed that Jesus died for her sins. I suggested that believing in the sacrifice of Christ, was enough to atone for her sins and grant her eternal life. (John 3:16)

  She agreed, but then added the JW party line, "You have to EXERCISE FAITH also."

  I asked her what this meant. Further questions yielded no answers, except that you have to "live in a way that is pleasing to Jehovah, even when you're not out in service or with fellow JW's." She went on to admit some of her own sins, and how she wants to improve her ways in her daily life.

  Where do they get this "exercise faith" idea, and what does it mean? I am looking at the Kingdom Interlinear Translation of the Greek Scriptures, and John 3:16 actuallly says:

  16Οὕτως Thus γὰρ for ἠγάπησεν loved ὁ the θεὸς God τὸν the κόσμον world ὥστεas- and τὸν the υἱὸν Son τὸν the μονογενῆ only-begotten ἔδωκεν, he gave, ἵνα in order that πᾶς everyone ὁ the πιστεύων believing εἰς into αὐτὸν him μὴ not ἀπόληται might be destroyed ἀλλὰ but ἔχῃ may have ζωὴν life αἰώνιον. everlasting.
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  Ding

  "Exercise faith" is the WT code phrase for unquestioning obedience and loyalty to the GB.

  In what sense is everlasting life a "free gift" and "undeserved kindness" if you have to "prove worthy" for 1000 years and more in order to get it?
• 

  Laika

  It's an overtranslation that allows them to turn a simple act into 'works' They do the same by translating 'confession' into 'public declaration' in Romans 10, and then using it to promote the preaching work.

  Show your mother 1 John 5:1.
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  Jeffro

  Ding:

  In what sense is everlasting life a "free gift" and "undeserved kindness" if you have to "prove worthy" for 1000 years and more in order to get it?

  Indeed. It's an entirely ridiculous assertion. And surely the Watch Tower Society wouldn't be so stupid as to actually put "prove worthy" in the same sentence as "undeserved kindness"... Oh... wait...

  *** w98 12/15 p. 19 par. 15 This Is the Day of Salvation! ***
  Since Pentecost 33 C.E., spiritual Israelites have endeavored to prove worthy of God’s undeserved kindness so that the “acceptable time” would be “a day of salvation” for them.

  *** it-1 p. 37 Acceptable Time ***
  Such Christians had become the spiritual “Israel of God” from Pentecost of 33 C.E. forward (Ga 6:16), but there was a need for them to prove worthy of God’s undeserved kindness, so that the “acceptable time” might indeed prove to be “a day of salvation” for them.

  Idiots.
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  Ding

  My favorite quote along these lines is from the December 1993 Kingdom Ministry:

  "We want to give deserving ones the opportunity to learn of Jehovah's undeserved kindness and the Kingdom hope."

  So you have to be a "deserving one" in order to learn of Jehovah's "undeserved kindness."

  Huh?
• 

  InChristAlone

  Not defending the wording... "pisteuo" from "pistis" means to "believe" or "have faith in". To them, "having faith" naturally became "exercising faith", and thus the focus on works.
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  Jeffro

  "We want to give deserving ones the opportunity to learn of Jehovah's undeserved kindness and the Kingdom hope."

  This is why the forum needs a 'facepalm' emoticon.
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  adamah

  The whole "Paul disagreed with John" thing over faith is based on a misunderstanding of what both said. The OT is quite clear on the need of the faithful to act on orders, relying only on faith, and the NT is simply continuing to using the same ol' control mechanism.

  Demonstrating faith IS the 'acid test' of whether or not someone HAS (possesses) faith. After all, talk is cheap and people can SAY (profess) their faith in "the hope of Jesus", but the person must demonstrate it by their actions, as a way to PROVE their faith and as justification to obtain their reward (think of it as the need to present the winning lottery ticket to actually claim a prize).

  Paul in Hebrews 11:1 presents the concept of faith in two parts, saying that one must possess faith but also must ACT upon that faith by SHOWING it to others, as if those observable actions were a tanglible certificate of merit (Greek word used is 'hypostasis', lit, a tangible title deed to a property) which others could see. The very act of showing it others (via acts of martyrdom as the early Xians carried out, or the willingness to kill others, eg Abraham offering Isaac, or actually killing others, eg Jephthah's daughter) is what allows the faithful person to support their claim of deserving of the promise when standing on the pearly gates.

  JWs rely on the same concept of 'proving one's faith' to coerce JWs to go D2D, shun others, as if such actions are proving anything except the person's ability to be controlled by others.

  PS the ability to possess faith is considered as a "gift" from God, that one must ask God to bestow to them. Think of the basic trainee in boot camp in the 1940's who gets ordered to drop and give him 20 by his T.I. who says, "Thank you, Sir! May I have another?"

  Adam
• 

  braincleaned

  " She agreed, but then added the JW party line, "You have to EXERCISE FAITH also."
  
  This always made me laugh grammatically. It's like saying "running is not enough, you have to EXERCISE running!" LOL!
  Silly JWs... parroting WTS nonsense.
  
  What this SHOULD be saying is that you have to show works of Faith.
  (Like it's not enough to SAY you are a runner, you must prove it thru action.)
• 

  adamah

  Braincleaned said-What this SHOULD be saying is that you have to show works of Faith. (Like it's not enough to SAY you are a runner, you must prove it thru action.)

  I think a more-fitting analogy would be that one shouldn't just flap their jaws about running, or wear track outfit and running shoes while lounging on the sofa eating donuts while being 50 lbs overweight, etc, but the person should actually RUN.

  Bruce Springsteen sang about the ex-ballplayer who was content to reminisce about his "Glory Days" as a minor-league player, and got a lot of mileage out of it for decades by sitting in a bar telling others what a great player he used to be, AKA resting on one's laurels of one's perceived past accomplishments.

  Braincleaned said- " She agreed, but then added the JW party line, "You have to EXERCISE FAITH also."

  Actually, I suspect it's not as incorrect to say, since someone must actively work (i.e. "exercise") at convincing themselves that it's rational to believe only on hopes and fantasies, since suppression of rationality needed takes some heavy-duty reliance on cognitive dissonance suppression techniques (eg repeatedly telling themselves that it IS rational to be irrational).

  Adam