It isn't just a matter of liking to give them. Some people simply don't have the aptitude to do it, but are expected to anyway. Not everyone is cut out for public speaking. It was always painful to watch certain people stumble through whatever part they had in a misguided effort to prove their zeal to others.
Since most JW's HATE giving talks and doing meeting parts, why does the Watchtower Society still require it?
by yadda yadda 2 31 Replies latest jw friends
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fulltimestudent
quote from problemaddict's post:
1) I think less people hate it than you may think. In fact, even though alot of guys are nervous, many of them enjoy giving parts, and like the attention one receives. Honestly it doesn't take much to impress. Alot of the women in the hall look at it as their chance to actually do something on the meeting. So 90% seems like a bit much. Maybe 50/50? Don't underestimate the allure of "progress" and the adulation that comes with being a man on stage in particular.
That was more like my own experience, (though I should confess that I was a school servant for many years).
When I became a JW I was a shy gawky kid - I hated going D2D, and I was certainly extremely nervous about giving talks at first (didn't turn up for quite a few). I think I eventually became competent at speaking, and I found the WTS publications like the old QM were reasonable aids to both teaching and speaking. I feel (know) that the experience I gained (in the end) has stood me in good stead in my life. I can't believe that people who cannot speak to a group can really function in today's world.
The ability to speak to groups is one of the few benefits I've got to show for dedicating my life to Yahweh and becoming a footstep follwer of Jeeeezuz.
In the years I've gone to university I've had to recap my JW speaking experience (rusty, after a long break-grin) - still get nervous. Had to present a project yesterday to my class, had initial nervousness (Old Nathan told us once that you give better talks if you have it) but once I started I was OK. Got a sustained round of applause at the end, which is pleasing, not because of adulation (you really do not get that at uni) - and I've never found adulation to be a motivating factor anyway.
I've noted that many kids (uni age) have problems speaking and, organising their presentations - they could really use some type of help. I've helped one or two - last semester I was teamed with a guy who told me he always got low marks for presentations. We worked on it together - he presented half (his own words) and me half - and we both achieved a mark of 90/100. Of course, some kids are great (natural born extroverts, maybe) or, maybe training at their public schools
The witnesses TMS is far from perfect, I think mainly because so many school servants I've watched, are not very skilled themselves and make little effort to understand what its all about. But that's a problem caused by the fact that this church (and any church, for that matter) is in the end likely to be one of volunteers.
BTW, as an observation, the early Orthodox church in Byzantium, may have had rhetoric schools, and I've seen also that men could be appointed to be a reader in the church. Why? because there was a lot of stuff that had to read aloud to the congregations.
If your not sure what rhetoric is, here's an extract from wikipedia:
Rhetoric is the art of discourse, an art that aims to improve the capability of writers or speakers that attempt to inform, persuade, or motivate particular audiences in specific situations. [1] As a subject of formal study and a productive civic practice, rhetoric has played a central role in the Western tradition. [2] Its best known definition comes from Aristotle, who considers it a counterpart of both logic and politics, and calls it "the faculty of observing in any given case the available means of persuasion." [3] Rhetorics typically provide heuristicsfor understanding, discovering, and developing arguments for particular situations, such as Aristotle's three persuasive audience appeals,logos, pathos, and ethos. The five canons of rhetoric, which trace the traditional tasks in designing a persuasive speech, were first codified in classical Rome: invention, arrangement, style, memory, and delivery. Along with grammar and logic (or dialectic—see Martianus Capella), rhetoric is one of the three ancient arts of discourse.
From Ancient Greece to the late 19th century, it was a central part of Western education, filling the need to train public speakers and writers to move audiences to action with arguments. [4] The word is derived from the Greek ῥητορικός (rhētorikós), "oratorical", [5] from ῥήτωρ (rhḗtōr), "public speaker", [6] related to ῥῆμα (rhêma), "that which is said or spoken, word, saying", [7] and ultimately derived from the verb ἐρῶ (erō), "say, speak". [8]
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Band on the Run
I mentioned before how critical the brothers were when I gave my first "presentation" when I was ten or eleven. It was cruel. I don't find JWs, in general, good public speakers. They pat themselves on the back and announce they are. When compared to groups, such as Toastmasters, I doubt if they would come in near the top. It also does not promote a rational back and forth with real householders. The world does not freely endorse the Witness message. It was easier when I was young b/c most Catholics never read the Bible before Vatican II. Now most Catholics are more scripturally proficient. Protestants are no slouches, either.
The WT reasoning is not logical. I can't recall a householder ever making a good point against the WT position. So it is not for pragmatic reasons. I feel that the cognitive dissonance theory is the key to the matter. After a certain point, you invest so much in the Witnesses, it is hard to walk away. I notioce that the GB never appear on discussion shows.
Any business person, small or large business, prob. has stronger public speaking skills. If necessary, the skill can be developed relatively quickly. I was told the only way to learn is to actually do it and to do it regularly. Regular practice is important. The WT assumes every person in the world will sit back as dummies and listen to the pearls of wisdom with an unquestioning attitude.
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compound complex
Comment from Milton Henschel, IN SEARCH OF CHRISTIAN FREEDOM, p. 232:
"And what will the brothers do if we give them more free time?
Probably use it in watching TV."Ray Franz's Response:
"Whether they consciously think of it in this connection, the men in positions of leadership also know that the Watch Tower organization has produced a publishing empire of tremendous size, one that has taken decades to build up. That publishing system with its large, expensive branch offices and printeries and the impressive, multi-storied dwellings for those operating these, are a source of considerable pride and a frequently cited evidence of divine blessing and prosperity. Any diminishing of the pressure on Witnesses to engage in door-to-door activity with the publications flowing from that system could eventually cause that empire to crumble or require its being largely dismantled. I seriously believe that for many of those in the organizational leadership, the very idea of this is unthinkable."
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Ucantnome
I never liked doing anything at the hall. I liked to slip in as it started get a chair and sit in back. leave once i'd got my magazines. I think a lot of brothers liked doing parts and i was happy for them to carry on and do them.
however not long after we were married a couple of elders came round uninvited and informed me they thought i would be doing more, reaching out. A few years later the same brother was accusing me of apostasy. lol.
Shame there were no privileges to revoke.
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OnTheWayOut
It's a cult. Cults tend to give assignments that allows them to control and test the loyalty of the members.
The little-known secret that faders tend to find out is that the Theocratic Ministry School (and all other assignments of any kind) are voluntary. You don't have to do talks, you don't have to do anything after you are baptized.
If you feel the need to go to the meetings for the sake of family, at least get off the TMS. You can keep scrubbing the toilets now and again, but you will be much happier if you quit the school with any excuse such as "I am just not up to it at this time in my life."
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Frequent_Fader_Miles
I also hated those dreaded assignments! After many years, I finally completed my "speech counsel slip"...only to be told I had to start it all over again!!!!!! At that point, I just stopped showing up for my talks. I was just sick and tire of the whole thing.
And besides the talks, some brother always wanted me to be part of some dumb demonstration during the meeting. I was doing parts for youths even in my twenties. They were forced to stop when I turned 25 though... oh how happy I was for that.
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WTWizard
The washtowel likes inflicting unnecessary hardship on people. Public talks are one way of doing that. Another is field circus--I actually found it more stressful going door to door with the Kingdumb message than giving a talk where I was effectively preaching to the choir. They do this on purpose to infuse the membership with negative energy to prevent them from developing their souls while preparing the filthy angels and joke-hova to harvest their souls.
Besides this, there is the waste of resources. Besides that those resources could have been expended to make expected and unexpected events less of a disaster (including things that can happen without warning), such resources are actually expended on negative value. Burning gas for field circus, wasting time practicing a Number Two Talk (I was expected to waste as much as 6 hours rehearsing those), and the waste of resources being at the boasting sessions is for negative value which programs your soul to being impoverished. Besides, this increases the suffering when things for which you could have prepared for do happen, and the more suffering you endure, the better for joke-hova.
Personally, I would rather be on these boards than wasting time on a talk. Or, worse, in field circus. And I would rather expend the resources on supplies so, next Sandy, I have a nuisance situation instead of a major hardship. And not supplying my soul with more negative energy by wasting such resources on something as distressing as going door to door on crap.
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slimboyfat
The TMS was supposed to prepare you for the ministry, but I always struggled to see any connection between the two. I don't think they reinforced one another in any meaningful, practical sense.
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molybdenum
I love giving talks. It's the only time people actually listen to me. Well, I think they do...