Getting Stuck on the Idea of Closure

by OnTheWayOut 40 Replies latest jw friends

  • OnTheWayOut
    OnTheWayOut

    I may be suffering twice for having left the Jehovah's Witnesses and watching my JW wife and other family members stay in. Once for the changed situation (or loss) and another time for expecting to make progress in getting over it.

    The 1969 book On Death and Dying by Elisabeth Kübler-Ross introduced us to the Kübler-Ross model , commonly referred to as the " five stages of grief. " They are very helpful, but the original idea of the book and the hypothesis was that when a person is faced with the reality of impending death , he or she will experience a series of emotional stages: denial, anger, bargaining, depression and acceptance.

    It isn't always the case, but those stages are often felt by terminally ill patients. Some may only feel some of those stages or be completely different for their own reasons. Still, The Kübler-Ross model was very valuable.

    Since it was valuable, the Kübler-Ross model was also applied to situations of grieving loss- the loss of a loved one, the loss of a happy family due to the divorce of your parents or yourself, the loss of oneself to substance abuse, YADDA YADDA YADDA.

    Some people miss the point and kind of insist that a person goes through the stages in order and moves on to acceptance. Then some people feel guilty when they are still angry or depressed, if even occasionally, when years have passed and they deal with an anniversary or just a memory-triggering occasion. We often try to insist on the stages even for ourselves, and then think that acceptance means total (or near total) closure.

    Our own society thinks like that too and tells us to read the right book on resolving grief, or getting a counselor to help us reach that final closure. And if we don't do it easily, to take some pills. Either way, society and well-intentioned people tell us to buck up and get over it. They insist that grief is something to fix when you reach closure.

    The difference between a terminally ill person and a grieving person is that the terminally ill person needs to accept their outcome no matter what. They die and have final closure, even if they refused with their last breath to accept it. Not so for the living. We may need to move on with our lives to a large degree, but some feelings may only diminish and never go away in our lifetimes.

    =========================================================================

    Well, OTWO rambled on. Now he will make his point. Even in my own comments on this subject over the years, I assumed I would reach some sort of near-total closure. Yet here I am with thousands of entries on JWN. Some would say, "When you are ready, you will stop coming here." I might reply that I would like to reach the point where I check in from time-to-time with good friends, but see myself not really commenting much in the future. I still believe that my wife's JW activity will slow down, if not halt, and that my JWN activity will lessen or halt. That still might happen. But it might not. She might never slow down, or I might never really lessen my JWN activity.

    Make no mistake. I do join in on JWN to give advice, thoughts to newbies or others on their path. I do debate a bit with people about spirituality, the Bible, hearing voices, whatever. But I don't come here mainly for that. I come here for my own grieving/loss/anger over my life and the lives of my loved ones.

    But part of my internal harmony / clarity of thought / therapy is a different kind of acceptance. I am getting there. If I read a new experience of someone being treated wrong by the elders or their JW loved ones, I no longer have to believe that I shouldn't be angry after all this time. I may not waste as much time on anger as I used to, I may be able to accept that WTS is what it is, but I can still be angry when I see an injustice or think about what my family is learning. I no longer have to assume I should have moved on by now, nor set a deadline for such.

    The notion of closure- of having finished with grief (or any of those stages of it)- can be just a notion.

    And part of my accepting that it can be just a notion is trying really hard to understand that others are in a completely different place for the same reasons. I read a story about someone going through a loss because of death, then them going to visit a clairvoyant. They talked to their dead loved one through the clairvoyant. Of course I don't believe that they actually talked to the dead person, but the point is that often people want to believe. They want to believe that another Bible-based belief will bring them closure, or that God has a special mission just for them now that they have grieved, or like me- they want to believe that their family will all eventually come out. Some of those (and other) beliefs are rational and some are farfetched if not irrational. But they are what they are.

    So, if I argued with you because of a difference between where we are in relation to each other, I don't promise to stop. I promise to do my best to be understanding more. I promise to give thought to your different point of view. I promise I will do my damdest to never say "Get over it."

  • cha ching
    cha ching

    I understand how you feel, and wish you the best.

  • Oubliette
    Oubliette

    OTWO, great post. You have articulated a number of confusing and often conflicting thoughts and emotions that I have experienced over the last few years since waking up to TTATT and trying to move on with MY life while still holding out hope for my children still stuck in the religion.

    Thanks for sharing,

    Oubliette

  • Zoos
    Zoos

    If the Watchtower (active spouse) is still in your life then you're essentially still in an abusive relationship. How can you expect closure, healing, or any other positive development in that kind of environment?

    Zoos <----- not a counselor.

  • losingit
    losingit

    I don't know how anyone can expect closure when the injustice still exists? Perhaps not in your life, if for example everyone gets out, but when the injustice exists in the lives of others. Isn't it that sense of empathy and compassion which compels us to help others that are suffering in some manner? Blood runs through my veins, so I feel. I cannot be a cold, merciless, immovable stone. I forgive. Forgiveness is my best attempt at closure. And I'm not quite there yet. I think that's because JWs are so crude and arrogant. it makes it hard to turn the other cheek when they continue to inflict pain. Unfortunately, the scars and the bruises from the spiritual, psychological, and emotional abuse do not heal quickly.

    OTWO I understand how you feel. And I always appreciate your posts.

  • paranoia agent
    paranoia agent

    There are many books that tells you how to be happy, I know this might not sound like not what you are after but according to positive psychology grief is important, without these negative emotions how them would we learn from our hopes and failures and continue to be human? if you are grieving for a long time in my opinion I suggest you see a psychologist, not psychiatrists (temporary solutions for problems, after all you can't take drugs for the rest of your life) and you might want to read the happiness trap.

    I don't think the Kübler-Ross model applies to us anyway, it certainly did when I became an atheist but for most of us who family are in the ‘truth' loop between anger to depression. I think it's because we cannot find closure when we still have a chance, something to do with our super ego perhaps.

  • OnTheWayOut
    OnTheWayOut

    Thanks, Cha Ching. I wish you the best.

    Obliette, I hope the point came across that it is important to "move on" but that it is also okay to have those thoughts. No need to suffer a second time for the guilt of having thoughts and emotions on a matter.

    Zoos, true enough in my case and that of many others. Even in the case where the whole family leaves WTS or the individual was there all by himself and left, some might have those thoughts. And it might not be because of others they know/met in WTS. They might remain angry over lost time, wasted years, whatever. Thanks for your thoughts.

    Losing it, you captured a great thought- empathy and compassion over the still-existing situation with others. Thanks.

    Paranoia Agent- I am reading many books that help me immensely. I do see a counselor, not a psychiatrist, I am not currently on any anti-depressant drugs. I have moved on to a great degree, but wanted to share a milestone about not needing to feel guilty if I never totally "get over it." I think that may help some of the not-so-new ones who hoped they would move on by now.

  • Xanthippe
    Xanthippe

    Thanks for sharing your thoughts OTWO. I agree we should not feel guilty about not totally getting over anything traumatic in our lives. What you have said is very useful for all of us I think. I realised recently the local government organisation I work for sometimes drives me crazy because it reminds me of the borg. It's very hidebound and hierarchical. Although others at work get angry at times I know it is the memory of the borg that does it for me, too similar!

  • Phizzy
    Phizzy

    Thanks OTWO, for another helpful and thoughtful post. I too am somewhat annoyed that I have not moved on sufficiently to leave this place,JWN, wonderful though it is. I think when I can just check back in once in a while, instead of almost daily, I will have moved on somewhat.

    I still feel anger at a number of features of the WT, and I think that is a good thing, it keeps me ready to help any who simply cannot see what I see.

    I think the analogy of bereavement, though appropriate to our circumstance to a degree, so much is dead and gone, I think it does not tell the whole picture.

    For those of us with loved ones still trapped within the WT, a better analogy is with those who escaped both over and under the Berlin Wall. They escaped from a Totalitarian regime. So did we. Most of those escapees left family and loved ones behind and still trapped. So did we.

    Closure only came for those escapees when the Berlin Wall came down, and most of the Communist Bloc became more or less "free".

    At present the WT has its own "Berlin Wall" that keeps its R&F adherents firmly entrapped, and firmly controlled by a Stasi like Thought Police, and a network of informants etc etc. The analogy hardly fails in any feature.

    We can only hope that either certain things cause our loved ones to wake up, or a complete collapse happens.

    Only then can we expect true closure, as long as we feel love, we shall feel the pain of seperation.

  • OnTheWayOut
    OnTheWayOut

    Xanthippe, good application. That's very much so what I am saying here. If something outside the Borg makes you think about the Borg, it's okay. We don't have to beat ourselves up over it.

    Phizzy, virtually all symbols of comparison fail to some degree. The OP point was that the Kübler-Ross model is not a perfect model of symbolism and was mis-applied after it's birth to the point where many feel bad about not reaching closure. Your model of escaping the Berlin Wall is a good one.

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