Discussion w/ Wife: I Welcome Your Suggestions (page 6)

Bella15

As for JWs don't go to war ... the bible doesn't say GOVERNMENT/NATIONS, which are comprised of people/citizens, shouldn't go to war. In order for you to perhaps re-direct your wife's thinking on these issues you yourself have to know where you stand on this. Do a research on war within the Christian perspective, read papers, articles on the theory of Just War ... Jesus said: Greater love has no one than this: to lay down one's life for one's friends. Jesus was not jus speaking about himself, he was talking about love people just as he has loved us to the point of dying for others, SOLDIERS do this. The bible says that government exists because God allows it, and they have the SWORD. Government MUST defend its citizens. JWs treat soldiers as they treat the blood banks, they only enjoy their benefits!!!!!

On being the only ones preaching ... they are NOT unique in going door to door ... as far as really preaching the GOSPEl they don't do this... look at Trinity Broadcasting Network spreading the Gospel through Satellite all over the world, look at the Christian ministries that put bibles in air balloon to be dropped in mountains, amazone, forbidden places, etc. Look at the Christian ministries that give away solar powered radios like ipods with the bible and the message of salvation, the TRUE CHRISTIAN GOSPEL ...that God has provided by the life, death, and resurrection of Jesus Christ a way for human kind to be restored invididually into a forgiven relationship with Him through personal faith in JESUS CHRIST (not mention of a WATCHTOWER CORPORATION IN NEW YORK CITY). In summary, learn what's the true Christian Gospel is and if really JWs are preaching it ...

slimboyfat

I agree with JWs on war, shame about everything else.

Perry

JWs treat soldiers as they treat the blood banks, they only enjoy their benefits!!!!!

Excellent observation, they enjoy their benefits while cursing them.

truth_b_known

Someone beat me to the punch on Romans 13 dealing with the fact that the God has given a "sword" to the earthly government and when they use it they are doing his will.

In addition, when Exodus 20:13 is PROPERLY translated it reads: "“You shall not murder," which is very different from "You shall not kill". Murder is the unlawful killing of one human by another.

Also, Isaiah 2:4 " They will beat their swords into plowshares and their spears into pruning hooks. Nation will not take up sword against nation, nor will they train for war anymore," refers to a future time. Not the present.

The preaching work is an epic fail argument. There is a list of religions that carry on in a public preaching work.

problemaddict

There is a lot of good suggestions thus far. I would say that redvip200 and backseat devil had some nice points as well as many others. I don't have much to add but here is where i got somewhere with my wife.

1) There are many people that don't go to war. Most in fact. Individuals are judged by God, not groups (anymore) right? So what are you talking about.

2) So there is preaching and prostletizing, but there is no charity and giving. The catholic church in the united states is the single largest provider of social services other than the government. So can't you imagine a Catholic having doubts saying "well look at how much we try to take care of others, we are the only ones doing it!', and justifying false beliefs?

She is currently not attending meetings.

Captain Blithering

Wow BOC, this is a GREAT thread, I'm in a very similar situation to you in that those TWO EXACT things have been brought up by my missus too in defense of the troof.

The responses posted above are REALLY interesting, thanks to all for your efforts, you're not just helping BOC you know!

ablebodiedman

Hey ablebodiedman,

you don't know what you have just done for us. I wrote those two scriptures in the front of my bible in huge writing and just can't wait to use them on the next creepy elders that come here. That is definitely going into my final letter to the co this week. Now I can go to bed and know I won't be having anymore bad dreams. Night night everyone

Yep, I sleep like a baby!

Here is another scripture that BOC could use on his wife:

Luke21:7-8

He said: "Look out that YOU are not misled; for many will come on the basis of my name, saying, ‘I am he,’ and, ‘The due time has approached.’ Do not go after them.

Do not go after them. --------- Does that sound like a recommendation or is it a commandment from Jesus Christ himself?

Perfect scripture for those JWs who insist that they are the only religion who are obeying Jesus Christ!

Impossible for a JW to argue that they have made proclamations about the; "due time approaching".

BOC's wife may use the; "but JWs don't claim to come on the basis of Jesus Christ's name or say that ""I am he"".

Perfect time to whip out the May 1st 1959 Watchtower Magazine:

w595/1p.269AttainCompletenessintheNewWorldSociety

7 To hold to the headship of Christ, it is therefore necessary to obey the organization that he is personally directing. Doing what the organization says is to do what he says. Resisting the organization is to resist him.

I made a video using words right out of Governing Body members mouths to elucidate the enormous hypocricy and duplicity regarding what Jesus Christ said in Luke Chapter 21.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oe-Rpt-Fspg

Do not go after them!

abe

ablebodiedman

Label Licker,

The creepy elders will eventuall ask you if you are no longer loyal to your baptism or ..... "God's Spirit Directed Organization"

The beauty of obeying what Jesus Christ said in Luke Chapter 21 is that you can now very confidently respond by saying;

I am loyal to Jesus Christ!

Matthew 5:11-12

11 "Happy are YOU when people reproach YOU and persecute YOU and lyingly say every sort of wicked thing against YOU for my sake. 12 Rejoice and leap for joy, since YOUR reward is great in the heavens; for in that way they persecuted the prophets prior to YOU.

abe

breakfast of champions

Thanks everyone for the feedback! I will take everyone's input and try to synthesize a response for my wife to consider.

I know the reason she brought up these particular subjects is because she's experiencing major cognitive dissonance right now.

I realize I am literally watching her "cult self" scramble for ANY reason why she should still consider this thing to be "the truth."

When I hear my REAL wife talk, it's almost shocking! We had another talk in the car yesterday, and her "true self" was asking some good questions, and reasoning like a rational human being. If I can just get THAT person to surface entirely. . . .

For now, I think I'm going to let these two issues sit on the back burner. I've got all of the great links and info posted here, so I'll be more prepared next time.

I'm hoping (actually I'm pretty sure!) the upcoming annual meeting will really shake my wife. I know the kind of wacky, controlling, cult rhetoric these bozos use at these things, and my wife is becoming more and more sensitive to it.

Thanks again,

BOC

DATA-DOG

How about this...

WAR

Have your wife explain to you who the Superior Authorities are from the bible. Ask her if she really believes the WTBTS's explanation. Try to be neutral, or act genuinely perplexed. If she says "Yes", you could ask what it meant be the S.A bearing a sword to punish evildoers. If we had no S.A, where would we be? Jehovah knows we need some kind of order now, right? So who are we to judge the hearts of those involved in the S.A that Jehovah allows to exist for the protection of the good people? Should we really label the S.A as Satanic? If we do, aren't we contradicting God's word about the S.A?

That won't make her say that killing people is ok, but it may make her reason about judging others.

Preaching

It's already been said. What makes them unique? Truth?! Show her the definition of truth from the last DC. Mention the nu-light that shows that what was preached for around 100 years was not true. Rutherford, the first FDS preached the end in 1925 and built a Mansion for the Ancient Worthies. Was that truth? Ask what teachings have remained the same over the last 120 years. No Trinity, No Hellfire, God's name is Jehovah? Is that unique? Then go to the reference bible and show her that the WTBTS admits that no one knows God's name. Now you are down to 2 "truths." The other two are harder. You could approach those later.

DD

Discussion w/ Wife: I Welcome Your Suggestions

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