I have a friend who is a sociologist. This person does research on being gay and Mormon, and will shortly come out with a book. We had a lengthy discussion about cults (in general, and JWs in particular), and basically the sociologist believes that ALL religions are cults. I had just finished reading Steve Hassan's first book so I remembered the many points he made identifying the hallmarks of a cult. I want to continue this discussion with my sociologist friend, but from an academic point of view. Any thoughts on how I can proceed in general? And then, more specifically, I want to direct my sociologist friend to reading Steve Hassan's books, but I would prefer some direction on formulating a message. Thanks for your help!
help with sociologist friend...
by losingit 33 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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cantleave
I tend to agree with him, all religions do have cult-like characteristics.
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ABibleStudent
Hi losingit, I do not feel that all religions are dangerous cults. In Steve Hassan's first book "Combatting Cult Mind Control" Steve Hassan even said that he believes in God even though I do not remember whether he still is a practising Jew. What I like about Steve Hassan's BITE model is that it is a good way to determine whether an organization victimizes its members for self-perservation.
I might make one addition to Steve's BITE model. Any organization that promotes that the image/existance of an organization is more important than an individual's life or well-being is dangerous. I like and try to practise "Do No Harm" to myself, to others, and to the environment - unfortunately I need to work on not being a carnivore.
Peace be with you and everyone, who you love,
Robert
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Laika
If all religions are cults than surely all social communities are cults?
This makes the word 'cult' meaningless. Though I happen to prefer 'abusive' or 'high control' anyway...
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losingit
I basically argued that major religions that exist today, such as Catholicism and Judaeism were all once cults when they were established. Since i know the history of the RCC, I argued that it was able to break away from being a cult because of the Protestant Reformation. Such revolt at such a scale was unheard of before Martin Luther. What made itpossible? Basically, ppl got sick and tired of being lied to and treated poorly.Now, when one decides to leave the RCC there are no major ramifications. I can just stop going to Mass. My family will still love me. My friends will continue to be my friends.
I went into myexperience with JWs, explaining how that is NOT the case AT ALL.there are major ramifications to leavibg or. being kicked out of the "religion" nevermind the mistreatment. one suffers while in. theypresent themselves as one thing, then. drop major bombs once you arebaptized. These are a few of. thehallmarks of a cult.
My sociologist friend was not buying it.Basically , he argued that all religions have wacky beliefsystems and that usong such a term is derogatory and defaming. I could not believe that someone who has this type of educational background conducting this type of research does not grasp the true meaning of "cults." I think he thought that i was speaking from a position of ignorance or lack of experience, but that's not so.
As far as allreligions f
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Laika
losingit,
That's why I find the term 'abusive' better than 'cult'. When you use the word 'cult', particularly but apparently not exclusively with JWs, you often end up defending your use of the term with a pointless argument in semantics that detracts from the point you were trying to make in the first place, but when you say something like 'I grew up as a Jehovah's Witness and found it abusive' they're more likely to ask for details. Then you get to explain about the shunning without getting first bogged down in the semantics.
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losingit
As far as all religions being a cult, suchclassification n negates the experience of those that hace sufferedterribly while in.a cult.
This sociologist friend ofmine said he belongs to secret fb ex mormon groups and is a member of boards just as jwnet. he dismisses the complaints agains . Mormonism as people who are unhappy with their decision to leave that cultural framework. He said he is tryingto beneutral when listening to these complaints because he does not want to take a stand againstthe rreligion. Thats not his place as a rresearcher.
I ddisagree. I just feel likehe'smissing a major part of the. puzzle. But he is an aacademic, and although I've some. experience in education, I'm not a sociologis. Im an ex jw.
And, i do feel like I shouldmention- - my friend made a pointthroughout our conversation of sstating that he's an atheist.
Pretty much,I'm baffledby th conversation.
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losingit
Laika-- right on! Abusive... ppl are much morefamiliar with that term
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adamah
I like Frank Zappa's definition words:
"The difference between religions and cults is based on how much real estate is owned."
Sure, there are Unitarian type religions where there's less potential for abuse, but then you have to deal with TONS of contradictory beliefs, including the "one true path", so Pascal's Wager is pointless (eg Jesus' words of "you cannot serve two masters" applies).
I tend to agree with the sociologist, in that belief in an unproven higher-power who determines the fate of your unproven everlasting soul who is constantly watching EVERYTHING you do and think tends to just be BEGGING for someone to exploit you; unnecessary, but WORSE: it's just not the TRUTH (AKA a fantasy).
Adam
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breakfast of champions
Your sociolgist friend is correct - from his perspective: yes, basically all religions are cults. You can get into how a consensus view is formed, yada yada yada, and the cult goes mainstream. . . .
Hassan's perspective on cults is different, and in my humble estimation, more precise. He is coming, not from a sociological angle, but a psychological one.
The psychological perspective takes into account the effects of the group on the individual, in this case, thought reform methods used by high-control groups, as opposed to sociologists, who basically say Well isn't this weird and interesting, hmmmmm to each his own, we're not to judge . .. and leave it at that.