Did a householder at the door ever cause you doubts

by perfect1 30 Replies latest jw experiences

  • jws
    jws

    Met a guy at the door that knew a thing or two about JWs. He gave us old publications to look up. I didn't write them down, but remembered one, looked it up, chalked it up as either a typo or old light. Don't remember the controversy, but it was something that was out of character for what JWs currently believed.

    But there was one thing he said that stuck with me and I have no idea how he knew this or even where somebody would get such a stat. He said there's more JWs in mental institutions than any other religion. I started to look around at my fellow JWs at the Hall. Sure enough, there were some oddballs. Maybe not odd enough to be locked up, but many of these people just weren't right in the head. I came to believe that for many it wasn't the religion, it was the sense of family & friends they got from going to meetings because, quite probably, normal society didn't embrace them.

    This isn't door-to-door, but as a kid at one district conventation, "apostates" had put fake watchtowers on the car's windshields. Apparently with info inside that contradicts JWs. I loved parody and wanted to see one, but there was an active cleanup task force out making sure they were all collected. I was told by my parents what they were and I couldn't have one. It just made me all the more curious. First off, what could they possibly say that'd contradict us? If we have the truth, then we should be able to debunk any false info. So why not have a look? We can research it and give them an answer back. Was always curious about what was in there and that led me to want to look at apostate literature to see why we couldn't stand up to it.

    On the other side of the coin, I've played the householder. I live 1000 miles from where I was last known as a JW so nobody knows me here. When they come knocking, I don't tell them I was a JW. But knowing their arguments, I can argue with them and often do.

    A good 10 years ago or so, I had a guy calling. He wanted to "study". I think I got him to actually sit down and read from the bible, not out of publications. He agreed the Q&A out of their publications was stupid. You're just reading back what you just read.

    After he mentioned 607, I said "hang on" and checked a bunch of historical and biblical reference books I had and showed him that scholars believe in 586/587, not 607. And went on to show him how even the Bible doesn't support the JWs viewpoint. He agreed with me. He said 1914 is probably wrong. BUT, he still believed the general stuff was right (last days, armageddon, paradise, etc.).

    After many sessions, visits became sporadic due to his work and eventually the visits stopped. I've inquired about him from subsequent JW visitors who said he no longer attends. Whether he disappeared due to convenience (for lack of a better word, laziness) or due to a change in beliefs, I don't know. I'd like to think I planted the seeds of doubt, but until I run into him again, I'll never know.

    The last JWs, I came at from a purely atheist point of view. Prove to me there's a god and that the bible is that god's word. We were never going to come to terms. However, I told him a friend of mine was an ex-JW (mistake, IMO), and that he told me things about them. I told him my friend said they were part of the UN. He said he couldn't believe that and he'd like to see the proof. At the next visit, he told me we'd never change each other's opinions and we needed to end the conversation. I showed him the UN printouts (Guardian article, printed letters from the UN, etc.). He looked it over with interest, but wouldn't take it with him. Who knows what'll happen?

  • outsmartthesystem
    outsmartthesystem

    I had a bible study that I canned after about 6 months. I credit him for helping me open my eyes. I canned him after taking a couple of different elders with me to study with him. He asked questions we couldn't answer. The consensus amongst that elders was that I should dump him because he was "obviously not rightly disposed" and "all he will do is wreck your faith".

    Critical thinking terminated

  • Doubting Bro
    Doubting Bro

    Never, I would debate and go in circles with the best of them. I always thought I won as well!!

    No, a friend talked to me about the UN thing and upon researching found out it was true. Soon came on here and learned a ton more and finally woke up.

    I do feel like an idiot for arguing with folks when I was dead wrong.

  • Londo111
    Londo111

    I remember my mother having a “Bible” study with a lady….and I went with her once. The lesson was on the name Jehovah and why we should be use it. The lady had not only prepared but made notes. She said, “I never called my father by his name, I called him Dad. It would be disrespectful to do otherwise. Shouldn’t it the same with our Heavenly Father?” I thought to myself, “Wow…good point.” Of course, I had to file that point away and not think about it. The Society’s position by default had to be right, making this lady automatically wrong, even though she made sense.

    Discussions by householders on 1975 didn’t sway me because I had all the cliché thought-stopping responses and wouldn’t read anything people were giving me.

  • Suspicious
    Suspicious

    It was a householder that made me look deeper into this religion. It was about a year and a half ago. I was taking a door going through my presentation like normal.He then said I should do some research about 1975 and that I should stop wasting my time. He kindly said he wasn't interested and went back inside and said do some research before trying to convince people of truth. I had NO idea what that was all about. I went home and looked up the 1975 is and found this site. I just ignore it for a while. I asked a few elders that lived through that period bout it. I got so many mixed answers. It finally bugged me enough where I convinced myself that if truth is truth it can hold its own ground. With time I did more and more research and here I am. Thanks to a householder.

  • Apognophos
    Apognophos
    First off, what could they possibly say that'd contradict us? If we have the truth, then we should be able to debunk any false info. So why not have a look? We can research it and give them an answer back. Was always curious about what was in there and that led me to want to look at apostate literature to see why we couldn't stand up to it.

    Similarly, for me, the most doubt-causing thing I ever experienced in service was from a Witness in my own car group who was talking about how he wouldn't read a certain book (something like Dawkins' The God Delusion) because he'd heard it would "make you fall out of the truth". I couldn't imagine why I should be afraid of any information if I had the truth. After all, I wasn't in "the truth" because I liked the status quo and was born into it, it was because I actually believed it was the truth! The implication that other JWs might be purposely avoiding learning things that would challenge their faith was a major factor in my eventually being willing to look at contrary, and even "apostate", information.

  • Captain Obvious
    Captain Obvious

    Two years ago I was on a rare trip out in service with a buddy and I had a "nice call" with a young woman who had recently begun attending a nearby church. She said she loved the congregation but she still had some questions. Of course I was happy to hear them! She said, "what does it mean to get saved, and how do you do it?"

    I bumbled and fumbled through a sheepish explanation that we do our best to follow gods (GB's) principles, and maybe he will save us. She then showed me the scripture in her own bible about grace... Not undeserved kindness.. Puzzled, I placed a bible teach book with her and left. That night I began researching in an interlinear.. I began challenging the NWT... Within a week my cog dis was so bad I couldnt stand the meetings, within 3 months I didn't believe in the WT and within 6 months of that I was an Atheist! My last time out in service was in March 2012 and even then I didn't get out of the truck, just drove The group.

    So simple... So easy. Just a simple question that is easily refuted by the bible itself in a more honest translation. If I knew where that girl was now I'd thank her for setting me free.

    By the way, awesome thread! Might be a good source of material for when we get called on or for other conversations with JWs.

  • erbie
    erbie

    Yes, I had a conversation one morning with a Born Again Christian who had previously been a member of the Plymouth Bretheren. She told me that I seemed very genuine and sincere and should examine the Bible more closely and that I should leave the WT$ for exactly the same reasons that she had left the PB.

    I have to admit, those were early days for me but I told her that I did agree with a lot of what she was saying. A few fellow witnesses who had been listening to our conversation looked more than a little concerned when I finally rejoined them.

    Much water has passed under the bridge since then and I would love to talk to that kind lady again.

  • LongHairGal
    LongHairGal

    perfect1:

    While I don't recall if a householder caused me doubts, I was nervous that I couldn't adequately defend JW beliefs. I was especially shocked when somebody told me the JW bible was not "accurate".

    I was particularly nervous about speaking to born-agains and hoped I would not run into any. I felt like a fool, to be very honest.

    My experience going door-to-door made me aware that Jehovah's Witnesses are biblical knowledge lightweights (if that), as opposed to somebody who really knows what they are talking about.

  • Faithful Witness
    Faithful Witness

    I love this thread. I strive to be that householder. We are former bible students, who studied and attended meetings (on and off) from 2005-2010. Obviously, we were slow progressors, despite the threats and warnings that our elderly bible teacher started slinging at my husband. We were too academic and had too many questions. We never could accept certain teachings, and then we discovered undesirable stories and information about the society and its history. After that, we had to quit lying to our friends.

    Now, 3 years later, I am ready to speak up. I've been politely holding my tongue, while the JW's have infiltrated parts of our family. My parents have jumped into the pool, along with my sister, her husband and now my niece and nephew are held captive in the tower. Alarm bells are ringing, as the society force feeds them new "food," and gets ready to instruct them to do things "that don't make sense from a human standpoint." Watching the WTS close down their big city offices and move to the country, all the while ramping up their demands for more and more sacrifice from the R&F, stresses the urgency of this situation.

    I have no idea if I can help anyone or not, only God himself can stir someone to see TTATT.

    When I learned of the new light being revealed this year, I texted my JW friend and asked her to bring me a copy of the study edition of the July 15, 2013 Watchtower. Her first response was to tell me to download it. I'd already done that, but explained how nice it was to have the magazine, and how I wanted to see her face again. She gladly brought the mag to my house, and asked me what was so interesting about this particular magazine. I said, "Well, I see they are changing things on you again, and I'm interested to see how my friends and family are going to react. (more quietly) I think you're being deceived..." Her response: "Isn't it exciting!?! I love it when new light is revealed!!!" (Huh?) She is born and raised JW, so I knew she'd have a good and swift reply. Wow... Anyway...

    We visited for awhile, played with kittens and caught up on things regarding the kids. Her teenage daughter was with her, along with her elder husband, who was mostly quiet, except about small talk. I could see the 14 year old looking at me, every time I snuck in another gentle question about the changes, the redefinition of the FDS. My friend adamantly denied that the FDS was comprised of "8 men in New York." I asked her if she'd read the whole magazine Yet.

    As she was leaving, after about a half hour of small talk and a few questions I snuck into the conversation, I made possibly the critical error. I didn't want to cause any arguments or jeopardize my friendship with her. I had been hoping to open up an ongoing conversation, or possibly receive a return visit. I was never a publisher, so don't know all the procedures. I'm assuming she got points for placing a magazine and some credit on service time for her visit. My mistake: "Did You know that Jesus came here and claimed to be God?" (Blank stare) that comment was unplanned, and I had nothing to back it up, except "I AM the way, I AM the truth..."

    Anyway, I have been hoping for a followup visit, but so far, nothing... We did visit 2 different Kingdom Halls to observe the new teachings being "discussed." It was enlightening, indeed! Strangely, we were unrecognized, as the people that we expected to see at the meeting, were absent due to health concerns (I assumed, since they said some were absent for that reason, and were instead listening in on the phone).

    if I did not have young children, I would be more inclined to consider re-activating or contacting our JW friends with more "interest." The meeting was excruciating for me, and i promised my kids they would never have to go thru that again.

    I always felt I was outgunned and ignorant, when it comes to "The Bible." I was not prepared to answer, when confronted with the statement, "it's good to hear you are still studying your bible. How does it feel to know your church is lying to you?"

    ###### WOW ###### a JW just came knocking! while I was typing this! ######

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