preventing baptism of minors (page 2)

SixofNine

I don't know your relationship with your daughter. I assume she sees you as much the boss as mom is?

I would simply say to her:

"I've decided not to permit you to get baptised before you're 18th birthday. The reasons are numerous, and even if it is really your desire to do it before 18, I can't see any possible harm to you from waiting. You wouldn't get to run the microphones anyway *grin*.

Jesus was 30 when he was baptised. I personally was baptised into the JW organization years ago, and I was a firm believer at the time; look at me now, I've changed my beliefs about the organization totally. The same can happen to you, and I want you to be prepared for the consequences.

I don't believe that when you have thoroughly examined your religion, you will decide to be a part of it anymore. Certainly it is easier for you to ignore the bad parts of your religion while you are young and don't have as much life experience. But the truth is, people get hurt, sometimes to the point of suicide."

(explain all the hurt that happens to people who get baptised into this religion, and why you don't believe any of it is necessary)

IOW, be firm and friendly. Speak to her with respect for her intelligence, but don't allow room for her brainwashing to discount your own intelligence and life experience, not to mention fatherhood. Force her to accept a father who believes her religion is hogwash, and wants her to know why.

Don't forget to get her involved, and keep her involved in lots of life building extracuricular activity.

I wouldn't hesitate to be a momma bear to the Elders, but keep your frustration with them totally out of your relationship with your daughter. Keep a sense of humor about yourself when interacting with her. Likely, the society would back off totally if threatened with a lawsuit on this matter. This is exactly the type of thing they don't want exposure on.

Your wife should also be able to accept this. Many witnesses do not get baptised before 18.

ps. just read about your daughter "tearing up" when you try to have a rational discussion. It's just another opportunity to show you care, and simply ask "what is making you cry, dear?" Convince her that you want nothing less than the best life can offer for her.

noidea

og..

It's possible that could work..and possible it may not. Now is the time you want to be in her life. I don't know what kind of relationship you have with her but I do know that whatever happens now if she takes your interference the wrong way then you could loose many valuable years with her. There may never come that time when she appreciates what was done through interference.

You said that she is already quick to tears now, that is a clue within itself. It would be better to have years with her now and later. She is at a time when she really needs you...these are crucial years in her life.

You have to realize she may never come to the understanding that you have. Is it worth a possible damaged relationship in trying to control the situation?

My Father opposed (I'm not talking major opposition..but just enough) my mother and I can tell you that it did affect me. I did not realize what he was doing or my other family members until last year. My parents did eventually end up in divorce and we moved out of state. I lost my whole lifetime with him... years I'll never be able to get back for me or for him.

~Noi~

og

This board can be so helpful at times... thanks all of you for your thoughtful responses. NN & 6of9, I had actually not considered the 'Jesus waited til he was 30' line - I'll keep it in mind.

NN said:

You and I know that baptism is a meaningless gesture. Why do you feel it is important to prevent this?

My response: Drifting away as one gets older, without the prospect of all your oldest friends immediately cutting you off, is a much easier decision to make than facing disfellowshipping or defying peer pressure. iow, I believe that many Witnesses go thru a sequence like this: get baptized young to please one's parents and friends, make dramatic decisions like foregoing college while under the influence of peer pressure, then later realize a mistake is made but push the realization away and/or suppress it because your life is such that it is now incredibly difficult to face up to such a huge challenge (leaving friends and starting to think for oneself). I would make it easier for her if i could.

Noi says:

You have to realize she may never come to the understanding that you have. Is it worth a possible damaged relationship in trying to control the situation?

my response: Maybe?

"Belief is the death of intelligence." R.A. Wilson

Yerusalyim

I agree with Amazing on this issue. A card you might wish to play is the fact that JW literature exists stating that if there is an opposing spouse the children shouldn't be forced to attend against that spouses will. Still looking for where I read that exactly. Speak to your wife and the Elders about opposing NOT attendence (though I would) but rather about opposing baptism until she's 18. BUt SEE the family lawyer too.

YERUSALYIM
"Vanity! It's my favorite sin!"
[Al Pacino as Satan, in "DEVIL'S ADVOCATE"]

Imbue

I assume you are male. How about trying the "I'm the head of my family" speech. Tell them you prohibit YOUR children from getting baptized till they are of age to decide. It may work depending on the elders. If they think they can bring you into the 'Trooth' by your wife's submission they may go alone with it.

Crazy is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

BluesBrother

*** w68 2/1 85 Parents' Moral Responsibility ***
Children of Christian parents who have been properly trained will eventually offer themselves willingly in dedication to Jehovah. Before permitting the child to undergo water baptism, however, the parents should be satisfied that he knows exactly what is involved.

Notice the word "permit".

Scriptual headship still applies here , according to J W teaching.

Personally speaking I would have not wanted to go through the 80 questions and recommend a 13 year old for baptism if I knew that her father opposed it, even if he was d/a'd .

Anyway, some great postings above, good luck!

noidea

Noi says:
quote:
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You have to realize she may never come to the understanding that you have. Is it worth a possible damaged relationship in trying to control the situation?
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my response: Maybe?

I don't mean to sound disrespectful but it makes me wonder by your responses if you even have your daughters best interest in view or if this crusade is really for you to prove a point?

BTW, I also have a daughter that is 13.

Reborn2002

This is such a difficult situation, and my heart and sympathy goes out to you og. Yet another example of how the JW divide families, and justify it in the name of their "organization"

It would be wise for you to show them the articles already posted here stating you are the "head of the household" and that you take your stand.. substantiating your position with information out of their own literature.

However, be warned. JW can surprise you because I have experienced situations in which even if you show them "guidelines" from their own WTS literature, if it is not serving their selfish interests, they will encourage family members to defy you.

I do not envy your position. In this scenario you are damned if you do, and damned if you dont, much like the Canadian Shunned Father.

I wish you peace, and I pray for your situation to be resolved positively.

It is not religious persecution for an informed person to expose publicly a certain religion as being false, thus allowing persons to see the difference between false religion and true religion.
WT 11/15/1963 page 688 paragraph 3

og

Oh golly, Noi, I do have her best interests at heart. What I'm trying to say there is that I might be willing to deal with some anger toward me, at least in the short term, if it meant that later on she would have a better chance to live her life and not spend it doing what the WS says to do. But you do get at the crux of the problem: prevent her from doing something whe wants, or stay out of her way?

spender

my parents were in a similar situation with my oldest sister. She wanted to be baptized when she was fairly young, but my parents (my mom is a witness) knew that she was too young to realize what she was doing. The elders didn't listen to my parents pleas at all, and allowed my sister to get baptized. My sister is now disfellowshipped and my dad resents what the elders did to this day.

preventing baptism of minors

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