Tammy, no offense, but you're shown great resilience to logical thinking and rationalism which is the hallmark of someone possessing the short-term memory of a gnat; it's pointless to try to connect the dots, since you're unable to look at one dot without forgetting where the prior dot was located.
As an example, you just wrote this above:
Yes, lets look at the example so you can see the flaw in the conclusion that you have drawn, and then perhaps you can withdraw your insult. (and who says it is theists who resort to petty insults in a discussion with atheists, lol... what is that saying some have: the first person to toss an insult has lost?).
Adamah says: And remember the thief on the cross? His example indicates that general gullibility and a willingness to believe in what we WANT to be true is a valuable trait (esp when there's no other alternatives, in his case). He goes to heaven, despite being a thief his entire life?
YOU assumed what he felt.
TEC:
You don't know what the thief on the cross felt.
And then, in the VERY NEXT SENTENCE, you say:
He KNEW he did wrong.
I didn't assume anything. I repeated what the thief, himself, stated:
"We are punished justly, for we are getting what our deeds deserve. But this man has done nothing wrong."
So Adamah, I did not forget what i said a moment earlier. I did not forget the 'former dot'. But nice try.
As if YOU know what he KNEW (I know, you trust the Lukian narrative on this one, and you don't need to rely on what Jesus told YOU about why he saved the thief....)
Well, make up your mind Adamah. You say I'm wrong on various matters because its not what is written (though it IS written, it just might be contradicted by other writings: hence looking to the Truth, for the truth); but YOU can go ahead and dismiss the written account whenever it suits your personal thoughts/beliefs? You do the very thing you accuse me of doing. But you... and those who are with you... are too blind to see it. (insert OTWO's blind pic here)
My point was that the account fits in with the NT agenda of placing FAITH above everything else, and that account demonstrates that exact tendency. You missed that point, but instead brought it back to YOUR gnosis, YOUR interpretation.
Hey, I'm not knocking putting faith in CHRIST, first (because faith in just anything means what?). Not at all.
I did, however, counter your opinion on the REASON for faith when I said that you do not know what the theif felt:
gullibility and a willingness to believe in what we WANT to be true
But you missed THAT point... to take a potshot that was based on another false opinion of yours.
Hence it's tiresome to engage with you, since you don't interact with a shred of "good faith", since YOU are the know-it-all who claims Jesus as your trump card in your back pocket, being able to insist YOU are right and the Bible account is wrong
Yeah... again... YOU are the one who made assumptions about what the thief felt... not me. I think that would make you the know-it-all here, yes?
And I NEVER insist that I am right. You keep missing that too.
I insist that CHRIST is right. And anything that i share... you can test against HIM.
But you don't do that either.
since you point to Jesus as your source, as if no one will notice that Jesus would have to be contradicting himself and ignorant of the Bible accounts!
Only according to your interpretation. He does not contradict Himself... though He might contradict some accounts as written in the OT, but then some accounts as written in the OT contradict one another too. (like saying that God punishes the sons for the sins of the Father... and also saying that God does NOT do such a thing, and that the saying 'the father eats sour grapes and the children's teeth are set on edge' should NEVER be repeated among the Israelites again) Though often it is a lack of understanding in the context that provides the contradiction.
Myself and others (eg jgnat) have shown contradictions and errors in your understanding (even on this thread as far as your misunderstanding of the concept of faith), but you're Teflon to logic, and there's no penetrating emotional defense mechanisms; that's on YOU to tear them down, not us.
No, you haven't. You think you have, but you really have not. Else it would not have been so hard to simply answer the questions that I asked you.
That's the dishonor you're actually providing to the spirit beings you CLAIM to be serving: you're in effect blaming THEM, and actually dishonoring them in the process. YOU, TEC, are providing AMPLE evidence that Gods are only a product of fallible human minds, even if you cannot see it yourself.
This sentence makes no sense. Blaming them for what? Would you not have to prove that your understanding is correct first... that faith is based on nothing really, that there cannot be evidence for faith or it is not faith? Well, the apostles and Moses and Abraham and Noah... ALL had evidence for their faith. But they still HAD faith in the One they KNEW, the one they HEARD. They had faith and exercised that faith by believing that One, and doing as He said. They were men of faith, and the author of Hebrews used them and their faith as examples of what faith IS. Why would the author of Hebrews show the people examples of faith, saying "this is faith"... but then state, as you are implying that he stated, "but don't mimic their faith. You can't have that faith. You just get to believe because THEY had faith, and you don't get to go farther than belief; you don't get to hear the Spirit. You put your faith in men, because you can't have that faith." Yeah see.. THAT... Adamah is exactly how religion and false teachers get a foothold over people, enslaving them. By the very teaching that YOU are proclaiming to be truth. So who are you really arguing for here? Because my Lord does not teach that. He never taught that. He taught: My sheep hear MY voice. Follow ME. I am the Truth and the Life. I will come to YOU, I will not leave you as orphans. If anyone loves me, they will obey my teachings, and my Father will love them, and we will come and make our home with them. The Holy Spirit, the Spirit of Truth, will teach you, and guide you into all truth. Here I am. I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in and eat with that person, and they with me. And as others taught: "Today if you hear his voice, do not harden your hearts." "There is ONE mediator between man and God, the man 'Jesus' Christ"
Methinks you really should reflect on your own eisegetical rationale, since ironically, the advise we offer others often speaks more to the lessons we MOST need to learn. And you are NOT exempt from that rule, since it's a fundamental of human nature.
Of course I am not exempt from that rule. No one is.
So I'm agreeing with Cofty and OTWO here, as there's no point in continuing to engage in a 'conversation' with someone who is so cognitively-blinded so as to continue to violate the very rules they insist asymetrically apply to everyone else BUT themselves.
'Cept you were wrong above. So...
PS I did answer the question on Peter, since I advised you to read Aslan's book Zealot, wherein he discusses the "Messianic Secret"; sorry, but you're going to have to pay $$$ to buy the book or check it out from the library, if you want to know the opinions of Biblical scholars (or better yet, just ask Jesus: it's FREE!).
That is not an answer. That is an avoidance. And again, I don't care about the opinions of 'biblical scholars'... on the matter of what is true with regard to Christ and God. Scholars have all manner of opinions on such matters. I care what CHRIST says is true, and I can ask Him. But I was asking for your thoughts, as it pertains to your definition of faith. Peace, tammy
