I've lost all my old friends (actually THEY lost me) but partly because they were trying to be my friends once I got reinstated and that's bs. When they would text me I'd give them all the same vague answer...pretty much thanks, but no thanks..
*Facepalm* What do you make of this cultish email I just got from my JW friend? What do I say to her?
by Julia Orwell 55 Replies latest jw friends
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Crazyguy
I wonder if you could say something like 'I have noticed a lot of mistakes or changes by the org over the years and I have also notice the scripture that says Jesus is the way the truth and the life, I also noticed that the bible says that God will give Knowledge or holyspirit to those asking and jesus said pretty much says the same thing. Also the bible says at 2tim3'17 that the book is all a person pretty much needs, so Im just trying to be the best christian I can be in Gods eyes and reading the Bible and prayer is helping to gain more knowlege. If you wish to come over and study with me then please come over, and the first thing you can do is explain to me why in John 6 starting in verse 47 that Jesus said serveral times that anyone eating of my flesh will have life 'anyone'.
Then when she comes over if she does you can slowly dismantle the JW religion one topic at a time.
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steve2
Another way of looking at this raises an interesting outcome:
Say this "friend", under Julia's prompting, does slowly realise TTATT. What then? Given the friend's unhappy background and life experience, she may now be worse off emotionally because at least the Watchtower offered her (false) hope and a structured way to live her life. If she were to realize it is all a lot of rubbish, the realization may de-stabilize her. She would not be the first person to lose their faith and then lose their sense of purpose in life. Solve one problem - but create a few others. Uh-oh!
I'm not saying it would happen - but, if it does happen, let it be because this "friend" has decided of her own free willto investigate her beliefs - not to be "innocently" made to question her beliefs as say through a Bible Study that was ostensibly set up to help Julia.
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konceptual99
Hi Julia,
In answer to your question "what do I say to her" then I would say little more unless you are desperate for the elders to pursue you. The route you are going will escalate from a quiet fade to being forced into a corner where the elders will hound you to either formally DA yourself or they will DF you for apostacy.
If you want to have the ability to have a modicum of contact then fade. But fade quietly. If this does not matter to you then why not cut to chase and DA yourself?
Just my view - I could be wrong! Just don't let the bar stewards drag you down!
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Julia Orwell
I honestly have no intention of having a 'bible' study as after 15 years of going over that rubbish has left me feeling sick even at the sight of it. I can't see how I could even pretend because somehow I'd burst and rant about ttatt. I want to politely decline her offer, talk nothing of the religion and get on with life and still be friends. I don't think that can happen after receiving such a probing email. Her cult self is in full swing now.
She's 3rd gen Jw and it's all she's known. also she must feel somehow responsible for my Jw-ness because she studied with me and 'progressed' me to baptism. She is now in 'spiritual mother' mode. You know how Jw mums cry when their teenager stops going to meetings, crying because they think their child is going to be killed? I can't imagine you can get thru the cult defenses at that stage.
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konceptual99
Hi Julia. If you really want any hope of remaining friends then you have to really tone down the anti-JW rehtoric. You have to turn off all the critical stuff about dates, hypocrisy, pedos etc. and just go back to being "tired". There are none so blind as those who won't see so don't even think you persuade them. Even quiet faders lose friends so don't expect to be able to be open with people and still keep a half decent relationship with them. You, me, them - we were all conditioned to distance ourselves and it's only us that have realised that.
Sorry to be blunt but my it's what 18 months of fading and watching others experiences has taught me.
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free2Bme13
It's sad when all they have to offer you is a study, rehashing the same old thing over again As they spout the same ol' party lines.
It's not easy trying to stay friends with someone who's still in. It's a tough line to walk. When I left I closed down my Facebook account because I couldn't stand listening to them go on about how wonderful the organization is, where else do you find such loving people. I also ignored most txts because I really didn't want to engage in a conversation, knowing that if I said anything critical I would be hauled to the elders. So now my only friends are the lovely people I work with but at least they like the real me and don't judge our friendship on whether I'm at the meetings.
Good luck with the decision you make. It's not easy figuring out how to respond to people.
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Julia Orwell
That it isn't. I certainly won't commit to writing anything that the elders can print out and chase me with. As for facebook, I never really put overtly critical stuff, just watchtower quotes that revealed general nuttery, links to news articles and historical factoids on early Christianity. Even if somehow they wanted to twist that stuff against me, my settings are so secure and ive unfriended the jws, , they would never be able to access it.
Last few times someone has sent me a cult email I've managed to find a nom cult point to respond to ie talk about my work etc and not touch religion at all, but this email is so tight there's no room for that.
Konceptual asks me if I should just da. I'm beginning to think I should, just to be done and put the whole bloody cult behind me. I have no family in it, I have lost all my friends except for a ttatt friend, and she wouldn't care if I da'd because she knows they're idiots.
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transhuman68
Maybe there is nothing you can say to her. Someone growing up in a dysfunctional family may use a fundamentalist religion to provide friendship and the illusion of security- that is very hard to argue with. When you make a radical change in direction in your life not everyone will come with you- maybe no-one will- but it is still important to move your life in the direction you have chosen and to find your purpose in life.
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smiddy
You need to be blunt , cut to the chase , dont beat about the bush.
1. The light getting brighter BS is just that Bullshit. It implies that a "truth" is gradually revealed expanded upon, getting ever clearer.
The fact of the matter as applied by JW`s is the "truth" that is supposed to be getting clearer is actually supplanted by a different "truth"
2. Dont let her get away with the excuse people are imperfect.Bring the subject back to whether the organization is spirit directed or not.
3. Jehovahs Witnesses dont claim to be infallible .They do claim to be spirit directed.
4. Since being spirit directed from 1919 and all the adjustments that have been made since then are we to conclude that the spirit doesn`t know what its talking about ? So the spirit got it wrong ,then it got it right ,then it got wrong,then it got it right then it got it wrong etc.etc.
5. The organization shifted the blame off itself for the statements first leading up to 1914 " All governments and kingdoms on earth will be destroyed by God " .....God didnt destroy one kingdom or government. secondly It is well documented that the organization put a lot of weight on jehovah bringing on armageddon after 6000 years of human history in 1975 , magazines and books testify to that .When 1975 came and went the organization tried to blame it on the rank and file members for being over optimistic.running ahead of scriptures .These are only 2 examples of the organization shifting the blame to the average witness.Their history shows their are many more.They have no shame in re-writing their history to shift the blame off themselves.
As a previous poster said "their are none so blind as those who wont see" or " people beleive what they want to beleive" and facts have no bearing on the outcome . Good luck to you
smiddy