Is Anyone a Pantheist ?

by LucidSky 21 Replies latest jw friends

  • LucidSky
    LucidSky

    Is Anyone a Pantheist ?

    In my search for the meaning of life, it has been only a month or two since I've actually become agnostic. My reason for the final rejection of Christianity was that I could not believe a God of love, justice and wisdom would create a world that along with life/pleasure would also foster death/suffering for seemingly infinite numbers of innocent and not-so-innocent beings. But hey, survival of the fittest is just life, baby.

    Well, it was about a year ago that I started considering other possibilities. There is a religion called pantheism which is defined rather vaguely, but nevertheless has strong explanatory power. Some Christians might fall into the religion of pantheism, as well as some agnostics. Even certain atheists seem to believe in pantheism.

    Well, if anyone has thoughts on this, I would welcome them.

    http://members.aol.com/heraklit1/faqs.htm

  • Eyebrow
    Eyebrow

    Very interesting stuff.
    Thanks for sharing!

  • dungbeetle
    dungbeetle

    my hubby likes pantheism. He bristles when called an atheist.

  • SoulJah
    SoulJah

    THANKS for the link

    One day we'll all be together,until then I'm ready for whatever
    ---Tupac Shakur

  • Amazing
    Amazing

    Hi Lucid: CUld you characterize your views with respect to Pantheism, and how this compares to Deism? Thanks.

  • LucidSky
    LucidSky

    dungbeetle - Are you familiar with any of his beliefs?

    Amazing - Well, my beliefs are in flux right now since I've finally abandoned my Christian-God theories, in reluctance though. I guess it's difficult giving up the hope that you can be immortal, happy and morally flawless.

    I'm not sure of the exact differences, but I'm thinking pantheism might include deism, but not the other way around. Doesn't deism believe in a personal deity or deities?

    I'm guessing that God is above us but is either imperfect, ambivalent or impersonal for a few reasons. Here are my current "Theism Theories":

    (1) God might exist. We can't disprove he doesn't exist. But is the universe even possible if he doesn't?
    (2) God is omnipotent. The universe astounds, staggers and confuses me. It is beyond awesome in size, power, complexity, etc. Even our own existence is beyond my understanding.
    (3) God may or may not be omniscient. Perhaps we are just God's science experiment or play toy or his imagination?
    (4) God is not perfectly loving. Why doesn't he love us enough to save us and everything else?
    (5) God is not perfectly just. Why has life been full of evil and hurt for millions of years?

    I note that many pantheists also believe that God is omnipresent. I never really explored that as a Divine aspect but I have no problem seeing it either way. Although, you could say, if once only God existed, then the universe must still be part of God too. Omnipresence seems to be a more outstanding feature among Trinitarians (I'm unitarian).

    And... there is no religious book for pantheists to seek out evidence from -- except for the universe, of course. And it provides some way cool non-virtual reality!

    But I'm still forming ideas and that's why I'm searching and seeking other's thoughts.

  • Carmel
    Carmel

    Pantheist? Nope, I gave up fried foods, cept for my waffles!

    carmel

  • Justin
    Justin

    Pantheism is the belief that God and the world (the cosmos) are identical. It's not acceptable from a Christian standpoint. There is another belief known as "panentheism," which is the belief that God is in the world or the world is in God. This can be illustrated by fish in a body of water; the fish represent creatures and the water represents God. Philosophically speaking, God would be the Ground of Being.

    Many who claim to believe in a personal God have ideas of God which could really be termed "anthropomorphic" - from the Greek "anthropos" - man or human being. That is, their idea of God is so restricted that it is as if they are worshipping a humanoid. In the JW/Bible Student tradition this was true to the extent that it was at one time speculated that God lived in the constellation of the Pleiades.

    Some of the Bible writers did have a more elevated view of God. Paul is reported as saying, "in him we live, and move, and have our being." (Acts 17:28) The early Church Fathers attempted to harmonize a philsophical view of God with the Bible, and took anthropomorphic representations of God to be symbolical. They concluded that, among other attributes, God is omnipresent - everywhere present - whereas the WT, with its anthropomorphic tendencies, cannot accept this. This does not mean that God is not also personal, but God does not have the limitations of human personality.

    So what is the relevance here with regards to our "recovery" from a cult? It's this: We have to be willing to step out and take the middle ground if we do not wish to be permanently enmeshed in a conflict of extremes. Otherwise, the battle of the atheists vs. the fundamentalists will continue. It's not enough to compare the teachings of the WT with the Bible in and of itself. There's a whole history of interpretation of the biblical text. There has always been an interaction between the text and a given community, both with the Jewish and the various Christian communities. It's not enough to ask, "Is that really in the Bible," but: "Is this a better explanation of the biblical text than another explanation?"

    Taking the middle ground opens us up to attack from both extremes, but we'd better do it if we want a conceptual framework in which to operate. So we can't just study the Bible. We need to study the Fathers and the theologians throughout the ages of different traditions.

    The same is true with the issue of biblical inerrancy. Let the atheists and the fundamentalists hammer away at each other. There are critical scholars who have noted discrepancies in the biblical text, and have used these to come to edifying conclusions which would have never been possible if it had not been realized that various writers wrote from different standpoints. Faith in God and the biblical message was maintained, not jettisioned. Keep seeking, for "they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us: For in him we live, and move, and have our being." (Acts 17:27-28)

  • Siddhashunyata
    Siddhashunyata

    Are you willing to consider that God is ,first of all,an idea? All ideas are limiting therefor you cannot know that which is limitles by forming ideas. The first step is to recognize that fact. The second step is to recognize that cognition through ideas is not the same as direct perception. This distinction is crucial! The "Way" is to see this distinction within your own mind. Ideas, ideas, ideas ...what happens when we stop forming ideas? The truth comes forward directly. Truth is not an idea or a set of ideas it is what is NOW! It is alive. It is Life. Life perceived directly without any conditioned ideas. This forum thrives on ideas but there is no recognition that ideas about God are like ideas about anything, limiting. Shall I give you an idea of the taste of honey? Its sweet. Now eat some honey. Is it more than sweet? How many ideas can give me that taste? Truth is like that, intricate, varied, whole wonderful. The difficulty is in catching the mind as it tosses concepts and judgements in the way of direct perception. The Way is to perceive this process within yourself. Read this again and watch the process. Now look at the things around you without the process.

  • drahcir yarrum
    drahcir yarrum

    God(s)is/are simply emotional crutches for dealing with painful situations in life that would otherwise be difficult to cope with.

    Belief in God(s) is a convenient stopping point when inquiry as to the meaning of life (who really cares?) gets too difficult to ponder.

    Primitive man needed "God(s) to help him understand the complex. We haven't progressed very far in that regard.

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