Is Richard Dawkins giving atheists a bad name?

by slimboyfat 59 Replies latest social current

  • slimboyfat
    slimboyfat

    He just can't seem to stop himself taunting "these Muslims" or "some Muslim or other". Among his favourite taunts are:

    "All the world's Muslims have fewer Nobel Prizes than Trinity College, Cambridge."

    What's wrong with that observation? Owen Jones points out that you can insert pretty much any other group of people instead of Muslims and the statement will still be true: all the Chinese, all the Indians, all the world's left-handed people, all back people, and so on have fewer Nobel Prizes than Trinity College, Cambridge.

    So why single out Muslims apart from to promote pure prejudice?

    http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/not-in-our-name-dawkins-dresses-up-bigotry-as-nonbelief--he-cannot-be-left-to-represent-atheists-8754183.html

  • JimmyPage
    JimmyPage

    Dawkins himself has pointed out the Quran's clear calls for death to those who do not embrace Islam. There is a saying that Muslims have bloody borders. Christians have perpetrated their share of bloodshed too, of course. But which religion would you say has, for example, evolved to a higher respect for women in general? Which one seems to be more embracing of tolerance? Which one would prefer to remain stuck in the past? Let's face it, all religions are dangerous. But should we really be surprised when Muslims get singled out as the worst of the worst? A more appropriate question might be, are Muslims giving themselves a bad name? (I might add too that there is almost a bullying of anyone in Islam who tries to forge a more peaceful path. It's comparable to the way the Governing Body treat "apostates" times ten.)

  • Phizzy
    Phizzy

    No, Dawkins is not a spokesman for Atheists, never has been, despite what believers may think.

    Yes the man has articulated some views shared by some Atheists, but the point is, Atheists are not a Group in any sense, it is a word that describes someone who simply does not "do" god, I don't play the great sport invented by your countrymen- Golf, I am a non-Golfer, just as I do not do god I do not do Golf.

    From my, or anyone else, not doing Golf, you cannot extract our feelings and opinions on matters, there cannot be a spokesman for non-Golfers who would give non-Golfers a bad name.

    I like Owen Jones and his thoughts, his last pargraph in his Independant article probably gave you your thread title:

    " As a non-believer, I want the atheist case to be made. I want religious belief to be scrutinised and challenged. I want Britain to be a genuinely secular nation, where religious belief is protected and defended as a private matter of conscience. But I feel prevented from doing so because atheism in public life has become so dominated by a particular breed that ends up dressing up bigotry as non-belief. It is a tragedy. And that is why it is so important that atheists distance themselves from those who undermine our position. Richard Dawkins can rant and rave about Muslims as much as he wants. But atheists: let's stop allowing him to do it in our name. "

    I have been ignoring Tweets from Dawkins for a while, as I find them wearisome, perhaps I should go back on there and challenge some of his views ?

  • slimboyfat
    slimboyfat

    JimmyPage I'm not saying there are no legitimate reasons for taking issue with Islam and some of its adherents, but is taunting them about lack of Nobel Prizes really anything other than ugly ignorant prejudice?

    That combined with his sexist remarks got to make atheists pause before they look to Dawkins as any sort of champion for their point of view.

  • GoodGuyGreg
    GoodGuyGreg

    @slimboyfat: Dawkins takes atheism a bit further than I'd be prepared to. And some of his more vocal criticisms aren't very well formulated if you want to make people see the problems with their current standpoint.

    But having less-than-moderate views in some areas does not invalidate the areas where the guy is right. Also, he actually is pretty much right even in the areas where he's not very nice about it. It's just that it doesn't help his cause.

    Otherwise, I agree with @Phizzy, that he's not a spokesperson that can be said to represent atheists as a group, since there is no real group to talk about. He's simply a pretty smart guy with enough of a platform to make himself heard and the wish to do so for what he views as the good of mankind. You don't have to agree with him, but without other arguments than that you don't like his attitude you won't prove him wrong.

  • slimboyfat
    slimboyfat

    Statements like the one quoted in the opening post are not very smart.

  • cofty
    cofty

    SBF - You can't see the difference between attacking somebody for being Chinese or Indian or left-handed, and pointing out the harmful effects of Islam? Really, you can't see that?

  • zound
    zound

    What are his sexist comments?

  • slimboyfat
    slimboyfat

    Huh? So failure to win as many Nobel Prizes as Trinity College Cambridge is a harmful effect of Islam? But failure of other groups is what, just a coincidence? Yeah impressive logic there.

    It's naked prejudice dressed up as meaningful observation.

  • slimboyfat
    slimboyfat

    zound search "Sharing a lift with Richard Dawkins".

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