Was talking to an Elder about beards. He said that at Bethel, only black and hispanic brothers can have mustaches (any actual facts supporting this decision?). He mentioned that “we don't want to stumble anyone so that they won't hear our message”. He then said that “if you look around the congregation, none of the brothers have beards, so if someone keeps theirs, it is a sign of spiritual maturity”. Wish he would read: (John 7:24) 24 Stop judging from the outward appearance, but judge with righteous judgment.” The thing about Bethel reminds me of something I learned about boot camp. I was told that in Marine boot camp (60's and 70's), soldiers were told to do bizarre things, like sleep with their rifle and recite strange lines. They do it because they are told to do it. It is part of breaking down the individual and introducing the collective. The things they are asked to do don't have to make sense. They are government issue now.
Beards....Do What Your Told! The WT Owns You, You Disobedient, Spiritually Immature, Publisher!
by allyouneedislove 27 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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DATA-DOG
Jw's are only locusts in a collective swarm after all. So what is a few thousand die? The GB won't notice.. Yours is not to wonder why, yours is just to do or die!
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Richard_I
Stupid unwritten law on beards. You are free to grow one, but the second you do, all your "priveleges" will be removed, other witnesses won't talk to you because they think you're "imitating the world" or something, and you'll be marked, even though there is no Biblically-based command that a man should not have a beard. Some congregations even disapprove of long hair and sideburns, because obviously at Matt 28:21 Jesus condemned any facial hair other than mustaches.
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Barrold Bonds
There's no rule at Bethel regarding mustaches.
That said, if you look at the photographs used in the publications, you will NEVER see a white dude with any sort of facial hair. You will only see blacks and hispanics with it. Which is dumb because as we all know, those photos are supposed to be 'guidelines' for JW dress and grooming. That means the FDS doesn't want white dudes with facial hair.
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konceptual99
This is one of the most inconsistant issues in congregations the world over. At a congregation level some (perhaps the majority, albeit under duress) allow elders and MS to sport a beard but there are very few instances of white men being used on the platform at circuit or district level with a beard.
Everytime it hits jwtalk there is a massive thread on it.
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Richard_I
@Barrold Bonds: I noticed that too (also, tucked in polos with khakis seems to be what the GB expects men to wear). Interestingly, the second page of the November 2010 Awake on atheism portrayed a protesting athiest with facial hair, and instantly I mentioned to my brother they added the facial hair to show he's evil and against God, and further proof that JWs should not have beards. The image.
@konceptual99: I've read in another thread that the northern European countries (Noway, Sweden, Denmark, etc.) allow brothers to have beards, including elders. However, in North America (and Britain?), this is still a huge no-no for an inexplicable reason.
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konceptual99
@Richard_I, as I say it's very inconsistent. It's a bit like the "marriage out of the lord" issue. I would bet my life that the GB are minded to make them out and out bans with judicial consequences, but know that even in the World of Dub there is no way that would stick.
With beards they allow the old and unwritten rule about them being unacceptable to persist, not making any out and out statement on what is acceptable whilst sending spewing typical double speak around no rules/just principles/reasonableness countered with non too subtle hints about their preference. This can be seen in the lack of beards permitted on the stage at circuit/district events, comments about new ones cutting their beards off and the use of beards in images in the magazines.
Take a look at last week's WT in the June study edition. Under the guise of showing "impartiality", an image of an older witness couple greeting a new one is shown. We all know he is a new one because he is wearing casual clothes, has long hair and... wait for it.... A BEARD.
There was a recent magazine depicting a pirate about to board another vessel, repleate with cutlass, breeches, blouse and fine pirate long hair and a beard. He is then shown having a study after being resurrected in the new system. Just like all the bible characters he gets resurrected along with his old clothes. He is still wearing his breeches and blouse. But, unlike Moses, Job, John and all the other faithful ones of old, he does not get to keep his beard. He has been to the local Hairmageddon franchise and got his newly resurrected locks neatly trimmed and his beard reduced to a regulation moustache. Hilarious but clearly presents the GB world view.
I have heard that Scandinavia is more liberal than elsewhere but it's certainly the case that there is no clear cut standard in the UK. I know several congregations (including my own) that currently have or had recently had appointed men with beards. I don't know of any that formally say you cannot have a beard but maintain the Ross Perot standard through simple peer pressure, sending out the clear signal that to grow a beard is clearly something for the spiritually immature.
As the saying goes, the only people with a beard in the truth are either on their way in or on their way out. It would funny except the whole thing is mirrored in so many other aspects of JW behaviour and the result is a high level of unhealthy control without having to make rules.
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poppers
"I was told that in Marine boot camp (60's and 70's), soldiers were told to do bizarre things, like sleep with their rifle and recite strange lines. They do it because they are told to do it. It is part of breaking down the individual and introducing the collective. The things they are asked to do don't have to make sense."
Yup, very common back then in the Corps; I don't really know how things have changed in today's Marine Corps, but that's the way it was back then. It was part of the process to break us down and out of our independent ways of thinking and doing things so we could be built back into members of an effective fighting force, a force that would follow orders while under the extreme stress of combat. And if we didn't do it there were consequences. For the most part it worked. It is a kind of brainwashing that was necessary.
Notably, it's the young people that are most suseptable to this tactic. As people age and mature they see the manipulation that is being used, but young people are eager to please, and the desire to be viewed by others as strong and competent reinforced the tactic. The worse thing was to fail your fellow Marine and comrade in arms. And by the way, never call a Marine a soldier - he is a MARINE. Soldiers are Army. Marines are instilled with a lot of pride for being part of an elite branch of service, and to be called a soldier is almost an insult. That's part of the brainwashing that sticks with you, even after more than 40 years. There is a saying, Once a Marine always a Marine (there are no ex-Marines).
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krejames
It's a well known fact that JWs are pogonophobic but the UK is much more relaxed about it these days. I was appointed a MS whilst having a beard. Yes I did get the occasional comment/dig about it but this was usually followed by "but yours is ok because you keep it so well trimmed". Mind you I was told that if I wanted to have a talk at the assembly I would need to shave it off. I never wanted to give a talk at the assembly so never shaved it off.
Take a look at this Beard Liberation Front
...and this Hirsute Campaigners Heatwave Press Release
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Phizzy
"Mind you I was told that if I wanted to have a talk at the assembly I would need to shave it off. I never wanted to give a talk at the assembly so never shaved it off. "
This just shows the hypocritical attitude and the extent to which they wish to control the "Public Image" they present.
It is obviously fine with Jehovah for you to beaver away giving talks and helping in your local Congregation whilst having a beard, but no, not on an Assembly platform, what utter nonsense, for which as usual they can give no scriptural reason that stands scrutiny.
The dress and grooming demands of the WT have always been based on what Corporate America expects and demands, but they don't keep up with changes there, they are stuck in the 1950's with their attitudes.
They used to try to impose this all over the world, do you remember those pictures of an African JW in western suit and tie calling on his own people's mud huts ? Ridiculous.
The Pharisees etc were no more demanding in areas of human conduct than the WT, probably less, but Jesus condemned them for their petty, pointless rules.
