Anyone threaten a lawsuit against elder committee that DF you.

by jam 17 Replies latest jw friends

  • Band on the Run
    Band on the Run

    No! Because I was once a teenybopper and radical activist at an extremely clueless level. It never works. You may get some very fleeting reward or effect for one second. Seconds do not count. You need a long-lasting strategy. This whole area of suing people triggers me deeply. It is not only law school. From TV and radical politics, I thought you would walk around and say "Sue you" and get everything I wanted. Indeed, I saw SDS women with no clue say "My husband's a lawyer and he will sue you>" Yes, I thought they were powerful and so lucky to be married to lawyers. With time, I cam eto know the local SDS lawyers. The problem was that feminism was always advancing. When you say "My husband is x," you lose any credibility. I was so young. Within two years, I worked in a place where some women just had announce "My husband is X. " They actually believe that I, a Barnard student from a poor background, would drop everyone else to take them to the top. If they were able to say, "I am a doctor." or "I am a lawyer", i would have exercised dsicretionation and found a way to diplomatically get them service. Never ever will some rich bitch go ahead of a working person. I was not compoletely assimilated by the Borg.

    This whole situation is amazing to me. Why can I meet powerful people in my everyday life or at some lecture and tell them about myself in three or words, and soon I am laughing with them. Yet here, where I have stronger ties, no one believes me. I have joked and obtained information from Tom Daschle, Edwin Meese, and others with no problem. Once you know a few words and behave yourself, public officials and CEOs truly want to know you. Staff members have trouble pulling ;them away so they can make important engagements. They live in an incestuous world. Yet they are completely dependent on word of mouth on the street. You may not believe me but I once had to pull officials away. I did not grow up knowing this information. I had long, long years of frustration and never understanding why others were talking to people I almost worshipped.

    If anyone here remembers the 60s and the Berrigans, I loved Dan Berrigan. His poster was never on my wall with the Beatles, Dylan, the Stones, and the WHO but I admired him on a deeper level in many ways. Nevertheless, I had enough encounters in NY to know he might be all flash and a phoney. I am minding my own business at school. Through unusual circumstances, I happen to go someplace. Dan Berrrigan is there! I don't know what to say. Of course, I knew he from the papers that he was at Woodstock Jesuit Seminary. I am an undergrad at Columbia so i am very self-important. If it is half a block away from Columbia property, i don't go there. Back in my mind, I knew he prob. took the subway, shopped at the same stores. Only I never ran into him. Just as I consoled myself that I would never meet him ever, guess who starts popping up as I walk down the block, go to the dry cleaners. He is not always at Woodstock services. Many times I go and no Berrigan. Yet I keep going because the other Jesuits seem even more interesting. Every so often I go to Woodstock. Well, with no prior knowledge, he is now giving sermons and consecrating communion at my church. Not a Roman Catholic Church. I am receivng communion from Berrigan. For a while, I thought he was stalking me. He is still alive only he is so old now maybe not. If I met him now, I would warm and friendly.

    Threatening to sue is very dangerous! Yes, there is no law against it. Don't think I reveal encounters with celebrities to almost anyone I know. Indeed, don't think I have ever told anyone in real life how clueles and awkward I once was. To me, it feels as though it just happened yesterday. Imagine a JW girl from Newark meeting Beatles, the Stones, presidents, Supreme Court justices, etc. I am not special. Thousands of people meet these people every day. It is not unusual. I reveal it here to encourage you to be bold. Risk being uncomfortable and awkward for a short time.

    I cannot take all this sue this garbage! It never works in real life at any level. Believe me, I had an entire life before law school. Everyone else around me was imitiating SDS lawyers and William Kunstler. I was jealous that I was so deferential b/c of the Witnesses that I could not have all my wishes in life bu saying "Sue you." Over a long stretch of time I gradually realized that some deference gets you much further. MY JW behaviors carried over the Big Time Law. Everyone is brilliant. They all read the same books. Classmates and colleagues all specialize in obscure Bob Dylan quotes. Everyone took out Beatles albums to look at copyright data. I never heard Eric Clapton music or meet Klaus Vorrman. Nevertheless, because I scoured useless info, I saw Eric Clapton at the Fillmore East. He did not fill the place. During the Bangladesh concert, George Harrison said that some osus probably knew about Klaus Voorman but never saw him. so meet Klaus Voorman. Well, most people just sat there. You don't know basic Beatles if you don't who Klaus Voorman is. Well, I found out I was not the only person who always wanted to see Klaus Voorman. With unusuql security in place at Madison Square Garden, one third of the audience risked being ejected from the concert to go to the aisle and see Klaus Voorman from a better angle.

    There is no magic. People spend a lot of money to find out what I share. Ignore it if you want. I don't give a d... about people who are repeatedly clueless after many attempts at education. There is absolute proof here on an ongoing basis that no one learned the lesson about education. Personally, I don't know anything about many thing so when I find someone with knowledge I so profoundly lack, i am so grateful. You can spend money and never find certain things. I have not been around such clueless people in decades. it is wearing thin. One area I know well. It is not academic and theoretical. Take it from someone who once did the stupid stuff most people do here. Life is so much better when you abandon the very mistaken notion that you know more than certain people. You do not. YOU DO NOT.

  • Paralipomenon
    Paralipomenon

    Traditionally courts stay out of religious affairs due to the murky implications of freedom of religion.

    In cases where they do rule, they will usually rule based on the relgion's own rules and policies.

    You would have more success by bringing legal representation in earlier. If they send a request for a JC, reply that you are willing to meet and that you can either meet at the office of your lawyer, or at the Kingdom Hall during business hours so your lawyer can attend to represent you.

    They will not agree to it.

    By their own rules, you cannot be disfellowshipped without a JC and a meeting in absentia is only allowed if you refuse to come. To my knowledge, I have not heard of them proceeding after canceling the meeting themselves.

    By agreeing to attend and have them cancel it, if they go ahead with the JC, they have broken their own rules and that can serve as a basis for a legal case. Not a slam dunk, but at least it has legal merit.

    You haven't threatened legal action, merely informed them of intent for legal representation. According to the elder's manual, they are required to contact Bethel Legal who will likely tell them to either drop it or proceed at their own risk.

  • frankiespeakin
    frankiespeakin

    You could tell them you are not meeting with any Judicial Committee and that if you hear that you have been disfellowshipped and an annoucement has been made public that you will take legal action. That seems to get them off your trail, some have tried it and it worked, but it is no guarentee it will work every time.

  • jwfacts
    jwfacts

    I sent a legal letter to the judicial committee threatening a law suit. I had read of some people that had made such threats and the elders decided to back down, so thought there was no harm in trying. My lawyer had knowledge of Jehovah's Witnesses, having studied the blood issue at university. He also advised that I would not win legally against being disfellowshipped, but I sent the letter just in case it may make the elders think twice about going ahead with disfellowshipping. I knew it was a long shot, as my case was too high profile, and the elders ignored the letter and disfellowshipped me, although they did stop calling me.

    Here is the Letter.

    Here is the entire experience.

  • RubaDub
    RubaDub

    You might work out a mutual deal that if they don't mention your name to the congregation, you will promise not to decorate their homes with Christmas lights and bring an esamble to sing Christmas carols on their lawns on a meeting night in December while they're at the Kingdom Hall.

    Rub a Dub

  • TD
    TD
    I would think you have a good chance to win (you wouldn't
    receive anything from the poor elders), with all the
    hate from the WT.

    Win what? What specifically would be the legal complaint?

    I do think it would be interesting if elders from a congregation you've never attended started harassing you, but I don't see a legitimate complaint against your own elders

    So you are not going after the WT but each elder in the congrega-
    tion. Who have the final say on a DF case these days?

    Your relationship is entirely between you and your local congregation. You have absolutely zero relationship with any of the JW parent organizations.

  • Old Goat
    Old Goat

    Years ago I was on the other side of this. A disfellowshiped person threatened to sue. They got themselves a lawyer who wrote a strongly-worded letter. We turned it over to the Watch Tower Society's legal department. They wrote back to the hick lawyer sending him a huge pile of prior court decisions and essentially said, "Go ahead, sue. See what happens." They dropped the case. Implicit in this was the threat of court costs and lawyer fees being assessed against the complainant.

    Suing on this basis does not work. It is a waste of time. It amounts to a huge temper tantrum without any significant meaning.

  • Vegas Girl
    Vegas Girl

    The thing of it is, you can't sue the Elders/Org for for enforcing their "guidelines" or prescribed set of "rules" as it may be put. When we became JW we all knew what DF is and what the consequences mean. We all saw DF people in the KH at one time or another and we were instructed not to socialize or even "say a greeting" to DF persons. So, with that being said, we all knowingly took part in the processes of JW's, it's not like it was a big surprise to find out that "No one is going to talk to me or do business with me when I am DF" I'ts kind of silly...........I am not saying that I do not understand the anger and feeling of wanting to exact revenge on some of these JW bonehead Elders, no doubt. But, common sense tells me that I could not bring a legal suit regarding this matter, unless there were extenuating circumstances, such as harrassment, threats, stalking other JW's to see what they are up too......My brother actually got followed and stalked by JW Elders in Oregon.......very small down, and I guess those retards had nothing better to do with their time. They would hide in their car across the street, behind bushes and even followed him as he was walking down the street one day, rolling down the window and telling him "We know what you are up to, we will catch you eventually" My brother finally lost it and replied that if they did not stop stalking him, he would call the police.......it was the last time they did it. I know how crazy they can get..................IN that case, you bet, I would have nailed the crap out of them!! But I do understand the emotion behind this topic.

    Just Sayin'

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