A question for elders and former elders who have served on JCs

by slimboyfat 42 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  problemaddict

  Its hard to answer this question without knowing what the accusation is. I had "meetings" with some guys about some subversive things I had said apparently. If only they knew.

  It was not a judicial meeting, but you could see they were trying to go that route. They really didn't have anything, but they kept acting like they did. So I insisted on specific names, accusations, times, who was there.....that kind of thing. I caught them fumbling, knew my "rights", and just took them to task on their methods and lack of real evidence of anything at all. They didn't like it. They were upset. But it never went to a judicial hearing.

  On the other hand, if someone was actually caught doing something wrong and there were 2 witnesses, i would say that person would need to show repentance to skirt DF'ing.

  So it really depends on the circumstances, which you probably are not able to share......understandably.
• 

  wallsofjericho

  confusedandalone......... awesome!!!!!!
• 

  Quendi

  Reading this thread has only filled me with disgust regarding the entire judicial committee process. The one thought that came to me during my reading was something Abraham Lincoln said. “If you want to judge a man’s character,” he noted, “give him power.” This arrangement allows a man’s true colors to show and while many do take the responsibility of sitting on these star chambers gravely and seriously, I would have to say that most do not.

  Obviously, this is the core of the control the Governing Body exercises over rank-and-file Witnesses. There is no wish to appeal to “the better angels of our nature” as Lincoln also said, but to the basest desires and emotions men have. Hence the questions posed by elders that go far beyond the scope of the problem before them. Questions that are nothing short of prurient and betray the lusts and passions of the questioners as well as their desire to manipulate, humiliate and control other people. There is no way the Governing Body will ever abolish this arrangement for to do so would mean the end of the cult itself.

  Quendi
• 

  Splash

  The BOE will be looking for 'works' of repentance.

  If you stole something, did you make recompense.

  If it was adultery, did you tell the innocent party.

  If it was drugs, did you go to get proper help, etc.

  This is a BIG factor in displaying the magnitude if your repentance.

  Splash
• 

  slimboyfat

  BluePill saying you're depressed really works? I would have thought elders might view that as self-pity and take hard line.

  Have other elders/former elders seen depression used successfully to avoid disfellowshipping?
• 

  besty

  my wife had a doctors letter saying she was medically unfit to face a JC sent to the elders and they ignored it.

  DF.
• 

  clarity

  As with Quendi .... I have nothing but disgust for this society!

  >

  If only we could have known, that the first step into

  a kingdom hall .............

  would be like stepping into a quagmire, into quicksand that starts

  to suck you under .................................and as you turn to escape,

  you realize ........ you are caught!

  >

  For any JW who is begining to see & is afraid to leave because

  of fear of elders or DF'ing or their little Kangaroo Court...

  reach out for help ...... all these hands on this site

  are reaching out to help you! The more you struggle to

  stay in, the more life will be sucked out of you!

  clarity
• 

  Marvin Shilmer

  -

  “Have other elders/former elders seen depression used successfully to avoid disfellowshipping?”

  Historically that did not work very well.

  Recently Watchtower initiated a policy for elders to stop—or at least pause—judicial committee proceedings if the accused is suicidal. Suicidal tendency is often associated with clinical depression.

  Marvin Shilmer
• 

  Quendi

  As clarity put it:

  If only we could have known, that the first step into

  a kingdom hall .............

  would be like stepping into a quagmire, into quicksand that starts

  to suck you under .................................and as you turn to escape,

  you realize ........ you are caught!

  To which I can only say, Amen and amen!! Had I known what I was really getting into, I would have turned tail and run with all my might to get as far away from this cult as possible. Alas! I did not know until I reached middle age. But as the old adage says, “Need brooks no delay but late is better than never.” I am glad to be out and free.

  Quendi
• 

  Marvin Shilmer

  -

  As an observation:

  I notice several entries in this discussion suggesting more information of the type of “sin” is essential in order to answer a strategic question. I can’t say I agree.

  A particular behavior is either an offense for which a JW can be expelled for, or it isn’t.

  Also, though there are rouge elder bodies, typically a judicial committee will show at least a semblance of following Watchtower policy, and how the hearing progresses is governed by that policy. Hence in general what works for one punishable offense works for another punishable offense in terms of strategically responding to the process Watchtower puts in place. There are aspects of this process that can be exploited, and should be exploited in defense of the accused by the accused.

  What’s surprising to me is that more here do not talk about what can be utilized for defense within Watchtower’s judicial protocol. My best guess is that though these opportunities exist—meager though they are—they are not more realized because Watchtower has not taken time to train its appointees on how to navigate them for purpose of defense by the accused, and most here speak from their training from Watchtower and related experience.

  A good example of what I’m talking about has to do with preparedness.

  Before a body of elders forms a judicial committee for a hearing it should first have enough information to hold a reasonable belief that a “sin” occurred. In particular a “sin” for which a JW can be expelled for. Usually this means someone has shared information with an elder or elders. In that case that elder or elders had opportunity to ask questions of the source. Afterward, if the body of elders forms a judicial committee on the basis of that source, the judicial committee members will each review material in preparation for the hearing. On the other hand, the accused typically gets no opportunity to prepare their defense. Yet under Watchtower policy the accused is completely within their rights request the hearing be continued to a later date in order for the accused to prepare a proper defense, if that is what they want to do. I’ve never seen this denied except when the accused had already made a statement during the hearing that was self-condemnatory. In effect, a confession. Otherwise I’ve never seen a request for continuance denied when the purpose was to prepare a defense.

  There are other items that can likewise be exploited for defense.

  Marvin Shilmer