by mP 33 Replies latest jw friends
All a sign of work. to little me, a SURE sign of a worker, a shy and elusive worker. which is entirey possible.
None of that has anything to do with what I posted. You can beleive whatever you like. Plus, your whole sentence about "in time, with time" doesn't make sense. If you wish to discuss a shy and elusive creator, resurrect your thread on it, do not de-rail this one with your half baked theories on time.
May be the jews were jealous of those temple builders, thats why they invented the anger of god stories.
My picture of the creator is that he applauds every step forward we take. up and away.
not pile of rocks like the pyramids, slender towers,
slender wings,
slender rockets thundering up.
jealousy will get you nowhere
Confusion of languages: sour grape story
flood story: undue interference in man's, woman's progress.
This is a great question and one I have asked without any reply.
If Jehovah is a God of love and wanted his name to be sanctified, why not give his people a cultural victory over all other nations rather than a series of brutal and violent military victories? Rather than deliver their enemies to them by having them slaughter every living thing in neighboring cities, how about teach them trigonometry, calculus, economics, medicine, linguistics, theories in art and music, architecture, government? Why not make it so Israel was so far advanced that surrounding nations saw them as a shining beacon of advanced civilization? The US for many decades had people from all over the world trying to get into the country because it was overflowing with riches, intellectual, artistic, and monetary. And that is with all of it's flaws. A perfect god couldn't do better than that?
@ EntirelyPossible: Perhaps the first is not quite true.. but I would argue against th second.
Generations of explorers, archaeologists, historians, engineers and tourists have puzzled over one the great mysteries of ancient prehistory. At its core this incredible anomaly is quite simple.
How did ancient cultures move 100, 200 and even 400-ton blocks of stone using primitive tools and methods?
Not only move them, but also accurately position them to tight tolerances. The question is simple; the problem is complex.
I think we need to look at the issues with a modern perspective in the context of what our heavy equipment is capable of today to really get a grip on what kind of challenge we are discussing.
Take that steel leviathan off the track and give a large team of men some ropes and let's see how far they can pull it or if they can lift it up at all. The average 18-wheel tractor- trailer is rated to about a 20-ton capacity. Our highways have a legal load-limit of 40 tons, anything over that has to get special permits.
I have come to realize after doing years of study of the ancient megalithic sites and modern technological capabilities that most people that write on these topics have not done their homework.
Many archaeologists and historians either skip over these problems or they dance around the real issues and simply give some unsupported scenario of how these massive blocks of stone were transported and lifted.
There is an unavoidable physical problem that engineers are very aware of and that is the density and relative compactness of stone versus the manpower needed to exert enough force to move or lift it. The two simply do not go together. Even if we scale things way down the problem does not go away.
Let's take the average 2.5-ton limestone building block that was used to construct the core of the Great Pyramid. The block would be about four-foot long, three high and three feet deep. How many men can be positioned around it?
I would say no more than eight. Unfortunately, eight men cannot lift up 4,500 lbs. Pulleys and hoists were unknown in the pyramid building era.
This poses a very simple and practical construction problem. It only grows worse as we raise the tonnage and the vertical lift.
How did the Egyptians lift 100-ton blocks up forty feet in the air to position them in the Sphinx temple? In addition, how did the Incas so carefully lift up and position their massive polygonal blocks so that they fit like a jigsaw puzzle?
There is an equally serious difficulty that precedes the transport and lifting of megaliths that takes place in the quarry. The only tools the ancient Egyptians had were very small copper chisels and rounded hammer-stones. The inflexible and insurmountable problem that the Great Pyramid presents is the fact that 43 blocks of granite weighing from 30 to 70 tons were quarried, lifted out of the bedrock, transported 500 miles and raised 150 vertical feet to the King's Chamber.
Several years ago Egyptologist Mark Lehner spent five hours in the Aswan quarry with a hammer-stone pounding against the granite bedrock (copper is too soft to cut granite).
He was trying to prove that the ancient tools could do the job. He managed to excavate a one-foot square hole one-inch deep for his efforts. The granite blocks in the King's Chamber were 17 feet long and the trench that had to be dug around to them was about 8 feet deep. No one has ever shown how these megaliths were undercut and lifted out of the quarry.
These were relatively small blocks compared to the great obelisks that were quarried, transported and then raised up thousands of years ago, many of which still stand. They weigh from 100 to 350 tons. There isn't an archaeologist or engineer that has the slightest idea how this was done.
Our largest modern day, heavy-duty cranes are rated from 100 to 300 tons. We have custom cranes that can lift up to 500 tons.
In fact, Lehner set up an experiment to see if it was possible to quarry, move and lift an obelisk weighing one-tenth of what the largest Egyptian obelisks weighed. It was filmed by NOVA and was an utter failure.
The team's master stonemason could not quarry the 35-ton obelisk so a bulldozer was called in. They could not move it, a truck was called in. These failures represent a turning a point in the long-standing debate.
Lehner actually confirmed what a Japanese team funded by Nissan had already learned in 1979, it is not possible to duplicate what the ancients did using primitive tools and methods.
Team Nissan was trying to prove something and they were very confident. But when they could not begin to excavate the blocks of stone they planned on using for their small scale-model of the Great Pyramid with ancient tools they turned to jackhammers.
When they tried to ferry the blocks they quarried across the river on a primitive barge, the stones sank. When a boat got them across the river they discovered that the sledges sank in the sand. They called trucks in to move the blocks to the site.
This debate has matured and moved along. It is time for those that believe they have the solution and can prove that the ancients used primitive tools and methods to step up to the plate. We need to dispose of this obsolete thinking and move on to more realistic solutions!
? 2002 by Will Hart --Not a Creationist
Both are true. Because it is not known how something was done does not mean it cannot be done.
Most people don't know how to start a fire without matches or a ligher, yet it can be done (for instance, I can).
Plus, it's pretty well known how the pyramids were built.
Among archaeologists, historians, and Egyptologists, however, there's no real mystery. The methods by which the pyramids were constructed are pretty well understood and documented, and have appeared in many places including Mark Lehner's book, The Complete Pyramids: Solving the Ancient Mysteries (Thames & Hudson, 1997).
Rocks were quarried from as far as 600 miles (960 kilometers) away in Aswan and transported to Giza, probably on rafts down the Nile during the rainy season. A level surface was prepared (again, using Nile floodwater for accuracy), and a causeway was built from the Nile toward Giza. The stones were pulled on sleds or over rolling logs near the pyramid, where stonemasons prepared the slabs. Once the four sides of the foundation of the pyramids were set, each successive layer was addedsmaller in area but higher off the ground.
There are several ways that the heavy blocks could have been added to the top. Side ramps made of either earth or wood could have been built along the sides of the pyramids, or the workers might have simply built an earthen ramp against one side and dragged the blocks up on logs. It was an incredible amount of work, and required tens of thousands of workers over decades.
That article did make me laugh. "Try moving a 200 ton locomotive engine! It can't be done!" Give me ten thousand slaves and I'll move it where ever you want. It really underestimates how much force thousands of people can generate if they are organized and using simple physics. That article is just a bunch of hand waving and casting doubt in hopes that you'll agree without actually doing any research. I like the last bit about "You must be living in a fantasy land" if you think the manpower of tens of thousands of slaves could do it over many decades.
I totally agree with mp`s OP . Here we have a creator of the universe ,who obviously has the ultimate knowledge of physics/chemistry and what does he do .He gives Moses the ten commandments on two tablets of stone , and if Moses hadn`t broken them , they would have disintergrated over time anyway.God obviously didn`t want these commandments to be authenticated/attributed to him otherwise he would have given them on a more indestructible alloy to his liking that would still exist today.
smiddy
Even the Bible agrees with mP's O.P
In the story of Solomon the writer/s try to say that he had all this wonderful knowledge and sophistication, so nations from afar, and a Queen at least, sought him out, and some paid Tribute.
Strangely all this was lost in a generation or two, one suspects that it is mainly fiction, but it shows that the hebrews felt too that Yahweh should have given them that position, if they really were the "chosen people".
Aliens did it...
A good point Phizzy
Why is their no historical record from other nations outside of the biblical reference to Soloman ? and his kingdom ? Where is the archaelogical evidence that such a kingdom actually existed ? Where are the artefacts ? of such an existence ?
smiddy
