Change of 144000 doctrine?

by Julia Orwell 43 Replies latest jw friends

  • Bobcat

    Notice the difference between the Online Library assertion and the order of events in Rev 16:16-21

    Online Library asserts:

    Armageddon is the 'climax of the great tribulation.'


    Revelation 16:

    The gathering of the nations to Armageddon (vs. 16) is a prelude to the great earthquake.

    The 7th bowl is poured out after verse 16, which results in the GT. (vv. 17-21)

    (Joel 3:13-16 has a similar order; a gathering of opposing nations prior to the "day of Jehovah." Joel 3:15, 16 is directly alluded to (and expanded upon) in Rev 6:12-17. The gathering of the "crowds" into "the low plain of the decision" is a prelude to this.)

    Although Matthew 24:15 (also Mark 13:14 & Luke 21:20) are 1st century events, they correspond timewise in their relation to their respective great tribulations. The Matthew 24:15 event was a prelude to the 1st century GT. And Rev 16:16 is similarly placed, timewise: just prior to the outbreak of the "great earthquake." All the events afterward (Rev 16:17-21) happen at 'the place called Armageddon.'

    "Armageddon" is not what the Society (and many others) imagine it is.

    The Online Library should say:

    The "Great Earthquake" is the climax of the 'gathering to Armageddon.' And the "War of the Great Day of God the Almighty" (referred to in 16:14, but takes place in 16:20 & in expanded form in 19:11-21) is the climax of the "Great Earthquake" (of 16:18f).

    It should also be noted that "Babylon the Great" is not the first entity dealt with in the "great earthquake" (contra the Society). "The great city" is, followed by an event described as 'the falling of the cities of the nations.' Afterward, "Babylon the Great" is handed the 'cup of God's wrath.'

    Concerning the 'Bride of Christ' and the "Evening Meal of the Lamb's Marriage" (Rev 19:9)

    If the OT pattern is valid, where the nation of Israel under the Law Covenant was spoken of as in a married relationship with God, then, the 'Bride of Christ' should be the "Israel of God" under the New Covenant. The 144,000 would not be 'the bride.' they would only be part of a much larger "nation." (Compare the parable of the vineyard workers in Matt 21:33-40, where the nation of Israel is represented by a vineyard, and the "son" that gets killed is the "heir" of the vineyard.)

    Paul spoke of the congregation as being "promised . . . in marriage" to Christ (2 Cor 11:2). The "evening meal of the Lamb's marriage" (Rev 19:9) would represent an end to the betrothel and a beginning of married life. The "evening meal" or 'marriage feast' is a decisive point in a couple's life in the ANE.

    Where Revelation 19:9 proclaims "happy are those invited," this would have to include the "great crowd" of Revelation 7 who are in the "new covenant." (See here, my post # 620 & 623 - if the post numbers are still there.)

    What's very interesting is that there is no "after these things" following Revelation 19:9. (Compare Rev 4:1, 2; 7:1, 9; 9:12; 15:5; 18:1; 19:1; where "after these things" and similar starts a new account.) The account of the 'Lamb's marriage meal' goes straight into the "war" account, which includes a call to "the birds of heaven" to partake in "the great evening meal of God."

    It appears to me that the "war" represents the "evening meal"/"marriage feast" which serves as the prelude to the millenium. (The millenium corresponding to the post "evening meal" married life.)


    If the GB have to be martyred for bearing witness to Jesus, to be raptured, then they aint going anywhere........

  • Bella15

    Very interesting answer from the WTC --- this is the RAPTURE that Christians believe in ... before the great tribulation Jesus returns for the believers but the WTC teaches that only their "annointed" ones are going to be raptured ...


    "One of the events mentioned in these verses is the ‘gathering of the chosen ones.’ (Matt. 24:31) Hence, it appears that all anointed ones who still remain on earth after the initial part of the great tribulation has passed will at some point be raised to heaven before the outbreak of the battle of Armageddon. This adjusts what was stated on this subject in “Questions From Readers” in The Watchtower of August 15, 1990, page 30.

  • Julia Orwell
    Julia Orwell

    I'd like to see those boobies martyred. But not in a way that will attract a million more followers.

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