What evidence is there for the miracles of the Bible OUTSIDE of the Bible?

by punkofnice 81 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • DeWandelaar

    What I do not understand... if such a thing is happing (with that australian guy) and I was in the room with a smart phone (which almost everyone has these days) I would have recorded it straight away! It could have been proven then to the whole world... however... we now are expected to "trust" these eyewitnesses...

    Proof is what we need...

  • mP


    The splitting of the moon ( Arabic : ?????? ????? ‎) was a miracle attributed to the prophet Muhammad , [1] derived from the Qur'anic verse 54:1-2 , and mentioned by Muslim traditions such as the Asbab al-nuzul (context of revelation). Some Muslim commentators interpret the event as a literal split in the moon, while others identify it as an optical illusion. Some assert that the verse refers to something that will happen at the day of judgement, not to a miracle performed by the prophet.

    I believe, do you ?

  • Seraphim23

    Yet again a thread that seems to become a war of words between atheist and theists. The distinguishing views being that science is the only acceptable form of evidence as opposed to other forms of evidence being deemed as having value! As a theist I wonder if there is any point to continuing such a merry go round. There is no common ground with believers due to personal experience and those that reject such personal experience of others. A more objective piece of evidence such a Turin shroud is also dismissed out of hand by those who cannot make the mental leap that science only deals with a part of reality and not all of it.

    I must point out that some atheists are not out for trap laying believers but many are despite our apparent common goal of helping people in the cult of JWs to get out of it, this being what we have in common weather atheist or theist. A sad state of affairs to me when one considers that more JWs could and would be helped if were not for all the fighting but then again people love a good scrap unfortunately.

  • Qcmbr

    Maybe the real enemy isn't simply one organisation. As an atheist I don't reject material information but as a skeptic I demand evidence. History has shown, with consistent evidence, that all claims made of supernatural events are either mistakes with perfectly normal physics-obeying causes or to be hoaxes. I'd be chuffed to bits if some supernatural claim could be proven leading to a new branch of science and some new knowledge.

  • Seraphim23

    Well why don’t you look more closely at the twin phenomena and the strange but interesting links they often have? Some of those cannot be explained by science or because of genetic similarity.

  • Qcmbr

    Not convinced I'm afraid. Still plenty of time to find some real empirical evidence. I think if you primed enough people with the idea that they were connected then you would start to find synchronicity in day to day reports (in actuality coincidence.) Now if twins always correlated moods,thoughts, experiences regardless of distance we have something very impressive, if however, we have ten stand out moments when it seemed something telepathic was occuring in the midst of thousands and thousands of non-synchronous events then surely we have to recognise coincidence (quite often I have had the thought that someone is about to die only to find that they didn't. The day, however, that one of those common feelings actually correlates to reality will stand out in my memory like a shining beacon.) Still interesting. Certainly worth doing research in.

  • EntirelyPossible

    You have changed what you said... moved the goalposts. I have never said that I accept everything that is written in the bible. I have never said that the bible is inspired or inerrant... just the opposite.

    I never claimed you did. You make this statement in error.

    You said that I deny things that Christ said... if I do not like them.

    So still no example of that.

    Christ said slavery and beating slaves to death was OK. You support that?

    I would have thought that with all the conversations and debates and arguments that we have had over the past few years, that you would understand something about my faith, even if you do not agree with it. But you are showing that you do not.

    I do understand it. It's an idea of an ideal you have and in pursuit of validating the voice you call Jesus, you will use and discard the Bible, Jesus, science, hijack the meaning of words, make unprovable claims, tell others when they are hearing the voice of Christ, etc. It's a slippery faith that says nothing unique or interesting that's impossible to grab onto and figure out from the outside because it writhes and changes shape every time you try to get a solid answer on what it says. Trying to grab hold of your faith is like trying to hold an eel with your hands covered in oil.

  • tec

    If you trust Jesus why dont you go touch poisonous snakes or drink poison ? It promises in Mark & LUke that you wont be harmed.

    You mean the way Satan tempted Christ?:

    If you are the Son of God," he said, "throw yourself down. For it is written: "'He will command his angels concerning you, and they will lift you up in their hands, so that you will not strike your foot against a stone.'"

    Christ responded:

    "It is also written: 'Do not put the Lord your God to the test.'"

    Christ certainly never said go and drink poison and get bit by snakes, lol.

    The passsage in Luke is speaking about spirits ... under the power of the enemy... using snakes and scorpians as a metaphor for these. The entire passage occurred because the disciples said in joy,

    "Lord, even the demons submit to us in your name."

    He replied, "I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven. I have given you authority to trample on snakes and scoprions and to overcome all the power of the enemy; nothing will harm you. However, do not rejoice that the spirits sumbit to you, but rejoice that your names are written in heaven.

    As for the passage in Mark... not all people have the same gift, such as the gift of healing; so I would not test immunity to poison by going out and getting bit by snakes, as perhaps that is not my gift... if this is even what that means, as opposed to being similar in meaning to the above passge in Luke.



  • tec

    What I do not understand... if such a thing is happing (with that australian guy) and I was in the room with a smart phone (which almost everyone has these days) I would have recorded it straight away! It could have been proven then to the whole world... however...

    Yes, hence the question I stated I would ask, also, regarding whether or not it was a physical and tangible thing that could be recorded.

    Pretend that it is possible that the miracle actually happened. This would make you so gullible you would not be safe to be let out without supervision in case you come home with the title deeds to the Brooklyn Bridge.

    Reserving judgment on the basis of words on that site... is not thinking it actually happened. I find it unlikely, and I would not accept without being presented with some kind of evidence. Other than that, I simply set it aside and leave it be, rather than make an absolute statement on something that i do not have all available information on.

    And yes, there have been questions that i have preferred to ignore because I do not know... but that make me feel cowardly, as if there is something to fear in not knowing the answer to something. Sometimes, if you don't know the answer to something... the most honest statement is... I don't know. Doesn't mean there is no answer... simply means that someone does not know the answer.





  • CADSkin

    HAHA. Right on! You never read anything from the Babylonians like "Don't F#[email protected] with the Isrealites. They've got wicked god power".

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