What evidence is there for the miracles of the Bible OUTSIDE of the Bible?

by punkofnice 81 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • Terry

    I've often sat and considered the process.

    One set of people listened to a wonderful thinker and marvelled at his words and the life he led and his kindnesses.

    They were moved by him.

    Most of the profound words he spoke were difficult and mysterious to the point of being elusive to the mind.

    When this man was violently arrested, tortured, accused and executed the shock and awe was devastating.

    What was the reason for all this--what did he really mean to tell us?

    The speculation process began.

    Filling in the mystery blanks with little guesses is a natural thing to do. An educated person makes educated guesses; an ignorant person

    make ignorant guesses.

    The network of puzzled friends pooled their speculations using the ethos and mythos of the times as a background for further speculation.

    Eventually, the man fit the background and a new myth was born.

    Phase Two.

    As a mere philosophical genius of great kindness began being transformed into a demi-god and religious figure--others who were disinterested 3rd parties

    offered cynical rebuffs and skeptical question arose.

    Apologetics was born!

    Like a fisherman telling of the wonderful fish he had caught the size of the fish changed and changed and grew gigantically into a legendary size.

    Mere kindnesses became, step by step, event by event...more and More and MORE wonderful.

    Finally, they were nothing short of MIRACULOUS.

    Phase Three

    Who can work miraculous deeds but a miracle worker?

    Who is a believable miracle worker of great moral character who transcends mere genius but a divine personality...perhaps even a godlike man?

    This process is called accretion. One layer upon the next; each time transforming imperceptibly into "other".

    Phase Four

    The word of mouth transmission of wonder stories (good spiels) Gospels stimulates written version after written version.

    Years pass and the written versions are taken to be first person accounts and, therefore, ironclad confirmation!

    Just like an old five cent baseball card left in a closet transforms with the passage of time into a collectible worth thousands of dollars by mere rarity and appraisal by fans---so too---the deeds and words of that modest rabbi whose life was filled with profound kindness was made into god himself and the words written about him into Holy Scripture.

    All a mere process.

  • mP


    In the bible all resurrections needed a body to be there for a resurrection to happen.


    Intersting mark has no ressurrection. The account of the ressurrection appears after 16:8 which is an addition. Even the NWT says this, admitting that the text of the "long version" is notfound in the oldest texts. When you tell JWs this they are literally stunned. How is it possible that the original Mark didnt have a resurrection.

  • frankiespeakin

    A good place to look for evidence would be "repeatability". Do we see these miracles repeated today? No so why should we beleived they happened thousands of years ago? Why the sudden stop with miracles in our day? A reasonable answer is: They don't happen now and they didn't happen then.

  • Seraphim23

    Yes it is of interest MP. I guess the bible is a human written and imperfect record. Of course it may be that the different gospels had different emphasis for a reason.


    Anecdotal.... That does not "prove" it didn't happen.

  • punkofnice

    I'd have hoped an archeologist would have discovered Lot's wife or something. But I guess salt wouldn't last long.

    Isn't it a pity that god in his infinite wisdom didn't leave something obvious for us? (...and I don't count the bible as obvious because it isn't).

  • mP


    The resurrection is perhaps the greatest event in the NT and maybe the OT. Im pretty sure that theres no way an author could have forogotten that happened if they really saw it. To imagine Mark remembers other less dramatic events seems silly. Its far easier to believe the ressurrection is an invention of a later time. The story of jesus evolved and we can see it in the text itself.

  • Seraphim23

    My view is that each Gospel account had a different message and spin from a set of core real events so they don’t have to be identical as well at target audiences were not all the same by the look of it either. Hence some contradictions I think are there for this reason. I would be tempted to agree with you MP about resurrections being an invention of a later time were it not for the evidence I have mentioned in my first post on this thread.

  • nonjwspouse

    It is interesting how many things we do, have, can achieve, today would be considered a miracle in the first century. The fact is we can't really know, we have to rely on recouts of history, or our own common sense. Faith is believeing in something that is not provable or seen.

    I find it bothersome the JW attempt to claim they can prove everything. That in itself is a huge warning sign that they are false.

  • Terry

    Anecdotal.... That does not "prove" it didn't happen.

    Like Bigfoot?

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