An old JW friend of mine contacted me...

by MrMoe 27 Replies latest jw friends

  • MrMoe
    MrMoe

    Dear Board-

    An old JW friend of mine called me a week ago. We talked, she has doubts. We talked more, now she wants to know why I "left" the truth.

    I have written an e-mail to a select few of you for some much needed assistance. Here is what I responded to her for the time-being...

    Don't be critical folks. I did hte best I could, she wanted a response right away and I stole a lot of this from websites.


    Kisses,
    Moe

    -----Original Message-----
    From: *****@fake.com
    Sent: Wednesday, April 10, 2002 12:02 PM
    To: *****@fake.com
    Subject: RE: HEY

    Dear ****,

    E-mail me back at [email protected]. My computer been freaking lately, tho, but I will check my box from work.

    Just because you have been taught and told something your whole life does not make it true.

    Ok, since you asked, I will show you a few basics of why I no longer beleive they have "the TRUTH." For one truth is truth, not based upon false stuff or lies. Truth is truth, plain and simple. When I did confront my dad, he said the lies and covering up were ok in order to protect the congregation. It is called Theocratic Warfare, just like when Abraham lied that his wife was his sister. I still don't get his reasoning and it was my parents own Watchtower/Awake bound-volumes that made me see.

    If you want to beleive in the bible or not is up to you. The bible says it is inspired by God, not written by him. It also say husbands own their wives and that women should not cut thier hair. But, that is a whole point to itself. Do I belive in God? Yes, of course, just not a book written by yahoos riding thousands of years ago on camels. Anyhow, like I said, that is beside the point and I will base all of your quesitons uponf the bible and the Watchotwer literature.

    Here are a FEW points. There is SO MUCH MORE. Take a deep breath, ok? There is a LOT here and much more on the way, if you want... no pressure...

    They have consistently taught false prophecies since the beginning of their movement.

    They falsely stated that the end of the present world or system of things would come in 1914 and 1925. They implied over and over again that it would end in 1975.

    They said the generation that went though and saw 1914 would NOT die.

    They indicated that the remnant of the 144,000 would be taken to heaven in 1878, changed that to 1881, cahnged it again to 1914, and once again to 1918, and finally changed it to 1920.

    They taught between 1925 and 1950 that the ancient prophets (Jesus forefathers like David and Joseph) would return in the resurrection prior to the battle of Armageddon. They made a mansion for them in California to live. It's called Beth-Sarim. I can find a link to the scanned legal property deed where it actually said the house was for the prophets when they get resurrected. Yes, this is a legal document on public records.

    They long taught that the "final end" must come by 1914. When that failed to happen, they came to assert that the end would have to come before the generation alive in 1914 would pass away. Now they have changed that. I have seen documentation on this as well directly from the literature.

    The year 1914 is somthing Russell origianially took from forutne telling/divination of the Egyptian Pyramids. YUP. I have seen the scanned documents on this, too.

    The organization has shifted its position many times on who would and who would not be resurrected like the people from Sodom and Gommorah.

    Used to not be allowed to have organ transplants. They have now changed this rule.

    You can get disfellowshipped for oral sex even when you are married. This is a rule they have flipped back and forth on as well.

    God will kill innocent children at Armageddon, yet, Jehovah is Love.

    Jehovah is the Alpha and the Omega and Jesus is not equal to him. BUT read the last chapter of Revelation. Jesus calls himself the Alpha and the Omega and says he sent his angel to the earth.

    Russell said he had "lightening flashes in the Temple" from the thrones of Jehovah and Christ and "new truths" were delivered to him personally by angels. After he died, Knorr and Franz returned to teaching that Jehovah's Witnesses were Spirit directed.

    Many of the rules they have developed have nothing to do with the Scriptures. The reporting of time in preaching, disfellowshiping for such things as smoking, celebrating birthdays, many rules concerning what is and is not proper in the marriage bed (like oral sex) etc...

    The Watch Tower has lied consistently about the nature of its policy in Nazi Germany in 1933. The legal Declaration published at Berlin in 1933 was an attempt to compromise with the Nazis, was openly anti-Semitic, anti-British, and anti-American.

    Jehovah's Witnesses ignore the clear biblical instructions in James and other parts of the New Testament to carry on works of love such as caring for widows, orphans, and their fellow humans. Placing Watchtower magazines at the doors does not feed empty bellies. In this sense Jehovah's Witnesses have faith without works.

    They don't partake of the bread and wine - but Jesus commanded everybody partake.

    To predict future events makes you a prophet. To predict a false date makes you a false prophet. The bible says to NOT follow a false prophet.

    If you become a JW you can't:
    http://www.jwfiles.com/jw-cant.htm

    Interesting picture of the Egyptology fixation Russell had (Egyptology is a form of fortune telling/divination)
    http://www.jwfiles.com/pyramid.htm

    Generation that saw 1914 would not die
    Scroll down - there is more than one scan
    October 1980 WT
    May 1984 WT
    October 1995 Awake
    November 1995 THE CHANGE without saying a word
    http://www.jwfiles.com/1914Generation.htm

    1975 Armegeddon Predition:
    Awake,5/22/69,pg15
    http://www.jwfiles.com/scans/AW5-22-69p15.htm

    Prediction Armegeddon would arrive in the 20th Century (we are now in the 21st)
    Book The Nations Shall Know That I Am Jehovah,1971,pg 216
    http://www.jwfiles.com/scans/NationsP216.htm

    Another 1975 prediction
    Watchtower,10/15/69,pg622,623
    http://www.jwfiles.com/scans/WT10-15-69p622-623.htm

    They lied about how many witnesses were in Nazi concentration camps:
    "A total of 6,019 had been arrested, several two, three or even more times, so that, all together, 8,917 arrests were registered. All together they had been sentenced to serve 13,924 years and two months in prison, two and a quarter times as long as the period since Adam's creation. A total of 2,000 brothers and sisters had been put into concentration camps, where they had spent 8,078 years and six months, an average of four years. A total of 635 had died in prison, 253 had been sentenced to death and 203 of these had actually been executed. What a record of integrity!" (1974 Yearbook of Jehovah's Witnesses, p. 212)

    BUT

    "Hitler failed to break them in prisons and concentration camps where he tortured 10,000 of them, and the Communists are failing to do it in their frightful prisons and slave-labor camps." (The Watchtower, June 1, 1960, p. 327)

    "Hitler, a Roman Catholic, the arm of his church in Germany, forbade Jehovah's witnesses to preach the kingdom of God, and these modern-day Christians had to say to Hitler's Gestapo police: 'Whether it is righteous in the sight of God to listen to you rather than to God, judge for yourselves.' They kept preaching even though 10,000 of them were put in concentration camps and over 4,000 died there. The rest nearly starved to death. The war's end aided their survival." (The Watchtower, January 1, 1964, p. 13)

    The question here is, if only 2,000 Witnesses were put into the camps, why print that there were 10,000 of them there? Where did the 8,000 additional persons come from? Did they perhaps come from the same place as the 4,000 Witnesses that is reported to have died in the camps? How can 4,000 people out of a total of 2,000 die? As we can see from the correct numbers of casualties reported by the 74 Yearbook, the real number of deaths is reported to be "a total of 635".
    http://www.geocities.com/osarsif/ghost.htm

    Quotes:
    (I saw these in my parents bound-volumes of the Watchtower)

    But, without a doubt, nothing has created more interest in this textbook than the first chapter with its chart and fine information regarding the 7,000 years of God's rest day. The observation that 1975 may well mark the beginning of mankind's great Jubilee has intrigued many.
    Watchtower 1/1/67 pg.29

    At all assembly points where it was released, the book was received enthusiastically. Crowds gathered around stands and soon supplies of the book were depleted. Immediately its contents were examined. It did not take the brothers very long to find the chart beginning on page 31, showing that 6,000 years of man's existence end in 1975. Discussion of 1975 overshadowed about everything else. "The new book compels us to realize that Armageddon is, in fact, very close indeed," said a conventioner. Surely it was one of the outstanding blessings to be carried home!
    Watchtower 10/15/66 pg.628-9

    'What about the year 1975? What is it going to mean, dear friends?' asked Brother Franz. 'Does it mean that Armageddon is going to be finished, with Satan bound, by 1975? It could! It could! All things are possible with God. Does it mean that Babylon the Great is going to go down by 1975? It could.
    Watchtower 10/15/66 pg.631

    In their new book, Famine—1975!, two noted food experts, William and Paul Paddock, make this forecast for the future, on page 61:"By 1975 civil disorder, anarchy, military dictatorships, runaway inflation, transportation breakdowns and chaotic unrest will be the order of the day in many of the hungry nations.
    Watchtower 4/15/68 pg.227

  • peaceloveharmony
    peaceloveharmony

    moe, i'm happy your friend contacted you! you've given her a lot info that will take her some time to digest. hopefully, she will continue to question and not slip back into the don't ask mode. i wish you the best with her! i'd just reassure her that you will remain her friend even if she doesn't come to that same conclusions as you. sometimes even with all the facts about the jws staring them in the face, they at first need to know that your friendship will never be based on their spirituality or lack thereof. hugs to you and your friend :)

    love
    harmony

    A good friend is someone who will come and bail you out of jail, but a true friend will be sitting next to you saying "That was f**king awesome".

  • MrMoe
    MrMoe

    Mony -

    Yes, you are so right. I will love her no matter what. I just hope I can help her...


    Kisses,
    Moe

    ----

    P.S. - her are some of her comments to me when she requested I help give advice why I no longer am a JW:

    "just thought id write a little note about this because youre really the only
    one i can say anything to about it--- the stuff you told me about the whole
    jw thing has really gotten to me-- ive thought about what you said and in
    general from what i do understand it makes sense i guess-- but whats driving
    me especially nuts is that this is something ive believed in all my life and
    never questioned it for being the truth--- ive suffered a lot of crap from
    school mates and non beliveing family members because of it not to mention
    the constant feeling of always being different and not normal like everyone
    else and then of course theres the countless hours being in one meeting or
    convention after another--- the thought that all this couldve been for
    nothing has got me real --- i dont even know the word for it....i always held
    out the hope that one day i could get my act together and go back--- and that
    that would hopefully save" (her kids) "too--- now i dont have a direction anymore
    and i dont know what the right thing to do is--- what about spreading gods
    word and all that crap--- how do i know what to spread if field service is no
    longer an issue? what about premarital sex-- is all that still out? i dunno
    what rules to follow - what to belive-- is just being a "good person" enough
    to get you into paradise---- and who doesnt think that theyre a "good person"
    i think everyone does but that doesnt mean you are... is the bible all a lie
    then howd we get here and why are we here? what if you and or i are making a
    big mistake and throwing everything away unnecessarily and its the wrong
    decision...then we just lost the hope of saving" (our kids) ".....im
    frustrated, scared and confused...the stakes seem so high to make the wrong
    decision or are those wrong too????
    i'm so sorry to bombard you with all this but ive been thinking about it
    quite a bit since we first talked about it and i am at a total loss as of
    what to believe now---- anyways maybe if you have time you could write me
    back soon- or catch me online and im me since i have no idea when youre on...
    oh and you never answered my letter from yesterday- let me know what you
    think
    sorry again- bye hun

  • ThiChi
    ThiChi

    I hope she does not go into shock...that was a lot for round one. When talking to my jub friends, I try to plant one seed at a time, over time....just to let it sink in...also, they tend to come back for more, when they are ready......

  • MrMoe
    MrMoe

    I already planted seeds.

    She is just like me, smart as hell, young and fiesty, and wants to know everything all at once.

    She mentioned when we had lunch that she wanted to know EVERYTHING and wanted to see scans of the articles or the originals if possible.

    She will print this off and read it and research it. When I first had doubts, I printed and read enough literature that I need to make 4 1" binders to hold all of it - in 3 weeks time. This is nothing for somebody as bright as her.

    In fact, I am willing to bet, this will not even be near enough.


    Kisses,
    Moe

  • SYN
    SYN

    MrMoe: Thank you for your hard work of trying to save someone from the BORG!

    It really is such an amazingly beautiful series of interlocking systems that comprise what a human is. It's too bad we're working backwards from the object code, everything would be simpler with the source and a comment or three thrown in.

  • peaceloveharmony
    peaceloveharmony

    oh moe, she sounds soooo confused and rightly so! i guess i'd also reassure her that her questions and doubts are perfectly normal and very understandable! she's used to thinking she had all the answers to lifes questions and now she feels lost and adrift. i'd tell her god would want her to be very sure in her convictions and that he gave her an inquisitive mind and wants her to use it. she says

    --- the thought that all this couldve been for
    nothing has got me real --- i dont even know the word for it....

    let her know you went thru the same feelings (i'm guessing you did..) and how you dealt with it. i'd also suggest to her or for you to feed her info from the book by steve hassan on combatting mind control. i'm not sure of the correct title, someone help me out :)

    you are a good friend moe, she's lucky she has you. you are helping her a ton just by listening to her!

    love
    h

    A good friend is someone who will come and bail you out of jail, but a true friend will be sitting next to you saying "That was f**king awesome."

  • SixofNine
    SixofNine

    Let me be the first to welcome your friend to JW.com. heheh

    Good job MrMoe.

    I can assure your friend that life has purpose apart from the organization, and even apart from the Bible. I know you can too. Now would probably be a good time to make sure she gets that assurance. I think if she posted the letter she wrote to you, here on the board, she would get alot of great things to think about, and reassurance that "being a good person" IS about as good as it gets, and that is more than good enough.

    I'd love to see her move through that stage quickly, if only because she has kids and is worried about their lives. That, to me, is why the net is so great: it helps people move out of that soul killing "spiritual limbo" that people might stay in if they don't give themselves logical answers to their questions.

    And btw, MrMoe's friend, sometimes the answer is "no one knows". If you're like me, you find that it is very freeing when you accept that truth.

  • Yadirf
    Yadirf
    An old JW friend of mine called me a week ago. We talked, she has doubts. We talked more, now she wants to know why I "left" the truth.

    Pattern:
    Eve's curiosity was aroused when she noticed that a snake for the very first time no longer fled when she approached, but stopped to chat instead. This seemingly innocent little chat led to her downfall ... all as a result of curiosity. Of course Satan still uses the same bait today. Before long Eve found herself outside the Garden to die.

    Yadirf

    Daniel 11:35 ... a KEY prophecy that must be fulfilled before the "time of the end" gets underway.

  • JT
    JT

    Friday

    I like your example, I don't know what it has to do with the subject of showing someone the unscriptural things that wt has taught to billions saying THIS IS WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS ON THIS MATTER

    only for it to be shown that the bible never did say the stuff as claimed

    But hey like your example anyway, it don't fit but since when did loyal jw make sense out of the stuff that wt has said for the last 130yrs

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