Former, Long Time Part 2

by James Jackson 31 Replies latest jw friends

  • Tech49
    Tech49

    Thank you for following my brief ramblings. This is all a new experience for me as well, mixed with roller-coaster emotions, and internal struggles to justify facts against feelings, with a liberal amount of reasoning tossed into the mix.

    We are taught for decades to study, reason, think, and yet... here we are, in a position we would rather not have been put in, to know the truth about the truth. My foray into researching the familiar topics discussed on this site has only been in the last 6 months or so. Usually I study and peruse sites like this one, and others, in the evening, after the family has gone to bed and all is quiet.

    One evening, early into my efforts to decifer these conflicting emotions, my wife comes out, and here I am with the WT library open, several books spread out on the table, computer open....... She says "What are you doing up so late?" "Just doing some studying." "I don't think I can remember you studying so intently before... everything alright?" "Yep, just studying."

    Then, out of nowhere, came this comment, half-joking, half-serious.... "You're not becoming an apostate, are you??"

    I chuckled, hiding my embarrassment and confusion and hurt all at the same time, and said something to the effect of "No, no, silly. Just doing some research on something that was on my mind..."

    That one comment alone really struck me hard. I thought about it for a while. Then it came to me. Why is it that a person is automatically LABELED as a threat when they make the effort to question something, to do research that's 'out of the ordinary'. Now, I know she means no harm, She just uttered the first thing that popped into her mind......but it occurred to me that she was speaking from years of cult-like mentality that had been ingrained into all of our minds. That one simple comment insinuated that I was doing something wrong. Since when is RESEARCH and STUDY wrong??

    Can we not listen to the experiences of REAL people, not just the sanitized, regurgitated versions we see on the platform at every DC, CA, and SAD? I am soooo tired of hearing about sister blahblah giving up a good-paying job just to pioneer... and look, she is doing just fine! OK, well, if you would like to help provide for MY family, I can pioneer full time too, please send the check to me at ........... anyways, I digress.

    James Jackson, continue your journey. I will as well, I have yet to read Crisis of Conscience, I am almost afraid to in a way. I feel like I am holding onto questions that I know the answers to already. I appreciate Barbara Andersons story and website as well. JWFacts.com also. I like the facts, let's not muddle them with emotional outbursts and hate speech, just the facts.

    Thus far, its been an eye-opening trip down the rabbit hole for me. I had never heard of the UN debacle, even being an elder at the time. Never heard of the Canti Conti case, never heard a peep about the child abuse cases that were paid off in California and across the country. I have always known that the claim of Elder's being appointed by Holy Spirit untrue, as I have seen some pretty nasty brothers in positions of power, in fact, some could be honestly described as "wicked". The "Holy Spirit" appointment process is a stretch at best, a fallacy manufactured by men to justify their own actions. It hurts me a little to say that, because at one time I believed in it. As I have seen more and more, as I have experienced more, I see what is real, not just what is perceived.

    It bothered me that the WT and AWAKE were downsized, dumbed-down, and basically turned into coloring books and crossword puzzles for the illiterate. No more good, intelligent, thought provoking articles that MADE SENSE. Even the Study Copy of the WT has a "simplified" version for those folks that just can't follow the circular reasoning of the week. *sigh*

    Then, the introduction of the almost-mandatory Family Study night, in place of the Book Study came along. Ok, I'll play along. I was a CBS Overseer for many years, and always had a good time with the groups. Now I could definitely sense dissappointment in the hearts of the friends. The one night when they could let their hair down a bit, enjoy a closer group, spend some time just being themselves in a warmer environment, was now gone.

    Parts given at the assemblies are ALL manuscript. No more improvisation, just read what's on the sheet please brother, and don't muck it up. Experiences are bland, sometimes even embellished upon, painted over and given a coat of shellac. I have seen the CO, at assembly practice meetings, make sure that the brothers change their experience parts, even make stuff up, to make them seem more "lively", and to "fit" the point they are trying to make. Or "you can't say that, change your wording to this... we wouldn't want the Organization to look bad!" *sigh* I'm sure you've seen the same things.

    The spontenaity (sp?) is gone, its all just more blah blah blah Listen Obey Listen Obey listen obey be blessed or else......You're not EVER doing enough, do more do more do more. Give up more, give up more, give up more, on and on and on. I am tired of the beat down.

    Anyways, enough of my ramblings, this is your thread my friend, enjoy your journey, thank you for sharing.

    Jack Harper, Tech49

  • zophar
    zophar

    My experience much like James and Tech 49. An elder over thirty years, chosen to attend first ever Pioneer Service School, yes, back then you had to be recommended by CO and in position to serve where greater need. Appointed Special Pioneer, many DC parts etc. Not blowing my horn, just listing experiences.

    I have found a new Ministry of sorts. As more and more are aging and dying, two I know just this week, there is a real need to try to help them.

    I resigned as an elder. It shocked many as I was the Coordinator and had many privileges. After a while I found myself missing my teaching assignments. I have always researched Bible Commentaries and such and tried to share interesting things instead of reading Hebrew 10 or Matthew 24 or 2 Timothy 3 during EVERY part!

    Thus my "ministry." I am fiinding that when visiting older ones now I carefully point out how we were not prepared for our current circumstances by what we were taught. When the "Friends" don't feel threatened they open up more. In fact when I pray with these older ones, I am very direct with Jehovah telling him of our disappointments. They are surprised because they have never said those things in prayer themselves. I asked one Sister who expresses herself that way. "Do you think Jehovah knows you are disappointed? Then why not discuss it with him?" I then remind them that it is NOT Jehovah who has set up this disappointment but the organization. My wife is shocked too when we find that many share our doubts and disappointments, they just don't have anyone to discuss it with without the fear of reprisal.

    I know where this can lead but still feel I am helping some very sincere people at a time in life they really need it. I am constantly pressured to serve again. And it is nice to hear people tell me they miss my teaching etc. but that can be just an Ego trip for me if I'm not careful. What is my true motive? And what am I willing to pay for it? My wife has very serious health issues, the reason I gave for resigning, and while we BOTH see many flaws, she still wants to attend some. So I go. Like one of the Brothers mentioned, I give Bible Highlights comments from the Bible not the WT, they must be different because many comment on them as such, "never knew that" etc.

    Sorry for the length of post and certainly don't mean to call attention to myself, but I see the need to help those who have never thought for themselves before. I realize it may cause me problems the more outspoken I become, but I feel a desire to do this.

    Thanks for this forum.

  • besty
    besty

    god job zophar - stick around and keep posting! please. - you mean a lot to a lot of people here...

  • flipper
    flipper

    ZOPHAR- Welcome to the forum ! I appreciate what you are trying to accomplish in getting older JW's to use their minds and openly look at things that perhaps out of fear they may not have addressed before or haven't been willing to talk about out of fear of reprisal, shunning, or being hauled before a JC or something. Good for you ! Keep up the good work from the inside there and I do hope your wife's health improves some. We are glad to have you here on our board. Remember we are friends and will be a support to you if you ever need an outlet, O.K. ? Peace out, Mr. Flipper

  • Giordano
    Giordano

    Zophar great comments! That's a wonderful new ministry you have...one that is loving and needed. The JW construct dates back to the 19th century, taking care of ones human resources was not in peoples minds.

    In my opinion the WTBTS is still a 19 Century religion and a failed one at that.

    Jack Harper....always great to hear from you and yes....." Why is it that a person is automatically LABELED as a threat when they make the effort to question something, to do research that's 'out of the ordinary'.

    One didn't get DF for that back in the day ever since Ray Franz the Society operates in fear and hate.

  • Hillary
    Hillary

    Hi James Jackson, the term Borg has something to do with the Star Trek movie

  • Reopened Mind
    Reopened Mind

    Welcome to James Jackson, Tech49, zophar.

    It is good to see elders waking up but, like my husband who was an elder, you can see much more than we rank & file.

    TotallyADD & I began questioning at about the same time, only we were cautious not to let each other know. He was the PO at the time. I had read an article in our local newspaper which led me to ajwrb.org, jwfacts.com, here, and others. He had recently been to Bethel and wondered why so many buildings were empty. He also couldn't see how the flood of Noah's day was global. I offered to research and that was the catalyst that started our journey out of the organization.

    My advice to those with wives still in is to listen to their concerns and carefully, carefully, ask leading questions. Offer to research. And remind yourselves that if the organization really does teach the truth it will stand up to any scrutiny. Most importantly give your wives more than the usual attention. Show love and consideration for their feelings. And be patient. If you want to exit the best way to do it is together.

    Keep posting. We want to hear more of your stories. We are here to support you.

    Reopened Mind

  • laverite
    laverite

    Great part 2 post, James. Besty provided a link to the Star Trek reference for BORG (resistance is futile). Many also write bOrg -- lower case b, capital O -- in reference to BORG as well as the Org or Organization.

    I have a question for you, if I may. Do you have family in The Truth TM or is the need to fade slowly more about The Friends TM ?

    Remember, you don't need to have all of the answers right away. Take your time if you can.

  • NeverKnew
    NeverKnew

    marked.

    I was asked what the elders thought/believed on this site.

  • ProfCNJ
    ProfCNJ

    I have been a JW since December 1991, now serving as MS. I was asked before to consider accepting the privilege of being an elder but I turned down the privilege 2x. After witnessing conflicts among elders, some of such problems became privy to me, I told myself I cannot go further lest I become part of some struggles that would just stress me out.

    I love this thread and the relevant posts. I just feel for Zophar. For more than 3 months now, I tried making comments about Bible highlights out of my own research and the way I see the Bible - w/out interference from the WT references. Surprisingly, some of my friends who have privileges in the congregation appreciated those comments. I told myself, if there is anything I can contribute, it should sound refreshing and encouraging - not the usual canned/worn-out comments the brothers are used to hearing for years.

    I cannot understand my feeling sometimes. It is as if I am trying to light up a candle in the middle of people who are held captives. It is like making them see scriptures seldom used in the kingdom halls, and show to them their practical applications.

    I just don't know if the elders are taking notice of my demeanor. Sometimes, I am vocal at the back of the hall, sharing my observations to fellow MS or a publisher. And more often than not, they would smile at me, as if saying, "brother, you got a point." :)

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