You read the story of Adam and Eve as saying "eternal life" was something Adam and Eve already had, and would continue to have so long as they stayed away from that tree.Yes...
Wanna know why?
here it is:
8 Now the Lord God had planted a garden in the east, in Eden; and there he put the man he had formed. 9 And the Lord God made all kinds of trees grow out of the ground-trees that were pleasing to the eye and good for food. In the middle of the garden were the tree of life and the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.
God plants a lot of trees. Notice in particular the planting of the tree of life
And the Lord God commanded the man, "You are free to eat from any tree in the garden; 17 but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat of it you will surely die."
God permits them to eat of all trees except one. That would include the tree of life.
God said, "The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever."
The tree of life was a tree that allowed them to live forever
I read it as saying that "eternal life" was a gift God said He would give to Adam and Eve if they stayed away from that tree for a predetermined, but unmentioned, period of time.you read it as saying that?????
where does it say that in Genesis?
I think "unmentioned" is the key word here!!!!
If they had managed to do so, God would have then allowed them to eat from the tree of life. Doing so would have then made them immortal, something they obviously were not, since we know they both later died.They were already permited to eat of ALL the trees except one, that includes the tree of life which the bible clearly tells us gave Adam and eve eternal life.
Your making stuff up!!!!!!
The difference in the way we understand the story comes from the different ways we understand the words "eternal life."you think so...
I think our difference here stems from the fact one of us is reading the bible a little more clearly. The other person seems to be making stuff up to suit himself. The latter is you, just in case you aint clued in...
As a former JW, you still have the JW understanding of "eternal life." JWs say that in the new world, even after the 1000 years have ended, some people who have been given "eternal life" might still sin, and when they do God will then ZAP them. This kind of "eternal life" does not sound very "eternal" to me.Trying to attach me to the dubs is irrelevant. I'm reading it for what it says...forget the dubs
As a Christian, I have the Christian view of eternal life. "Eternal life" to Christians means "immortality." (1 Cor. 15) Having "immortality" means a person possessing within themself the ability to live forever. Adam and Eve were able to die and so obviously they were never given "eternal life" by God as Christians understand it, immortality.As a """christian""" understands it.... blah blah blah. I think most Christians wouldn't understand what your talking about. I guess they arn't true Christians then...unlike you...
Trying to align me with the dubs and paint yourself as a true "Christian" really dont wash with me. Just words and labels...doesn't prove your point one bit.
I'm clearly reading Genesis for what it says here. My definition of Eternal life is living forever DUH!, they are so obviously one and the same. To live forever was something Adam and Eve were already permited, as I and Genesis keep saying.That was the default state of man.
start again...Try and explain myself as clear as possible.
Adam and eve live in a Garden where God has planted a lot of trees. God permits them to eat of ALL the trees. One of the trees is the tree of life that permits them to live forever. They are told if they eat of another tree they will die. They disobey God, eat of this other tree, grow old and die exactly as God said. God evicts Adam and Eve from the Garden and any access to the tree of life they initially had.
If God didn't intend for Adam and eve to live forever then it makes no sense for him to intially allow them access to a tree that allowed them to do so.
"You are free to eat from any tree in the garden"
They were granted the right to live forever, or eternal life. Simple...
You wrote: There is a big difference between the little bit of suffering I would allow my kids to endure and what God allows.Like I said, what I would allow my kids to suffer in no way compares to what God has allowed. If i had the power to erradicate disease, I'd do it in an instant. God on the other hand allows it...even creates it. He created some really great diseases didn't he. I, myself, wouldn't inject my kids with a disease...but thats exactly what God has done in effect.
So you admit that you would allow your children to suffer for a while in order to learn valuable lessons or to achieve a greater good. Let's say, for instance, they had to undergo a long painful surgical procedure in order to avoid much longer and much greater pain later on in their life. Then you would most likely allow them to suffer for hours, or days, or weeks, or maybe even months. But if God, with our eternities in His view, for very similar reasons, allows some of us to suffer for similar or, in some cases, slightly longer periods of time you condemn Him for doing so.
To teach a kid not to go near the Stove, for example, I might tell the kid that it hot, it'll hurt big time if she touches it. If the kid goes near it I might give him/her a smack. God on the other hand it seems would want to rub the kids hand fair into the hot plate and then beat the living hell out of the kid, then kick them out of home with no medical aid...even if they went nowhere near the stove. Ones called being a good parent...the other is called child abuse.
The fact is, someone who didn't know and understand why you were allowing your child to undergo a very long and very painful surgical procedure might also question your love and compassion. In the same way that you now question God's.The fact is there is no comparison between what I'd allow as far as suffering is concerned and what God has allowed. God is cruel in the extreme. Ever had cancer? That was a nice little invention of Gods huh! How about the Plague...Aids...Mad cow disease...I could go on. I coudn't even concieve of creating such things. I couldn't even concieve of allowing such things to exist if I had the power to erradicate them.
Seriously, what lesson is God trying to teach us. What lesson could he possibly be teaching us that requires such extreme pain and cruelty?
If a person came up to me and questioned why I allowed my child to undergo an operation. I would explain the reasons for it. I would say it is to get rid of the brain tumor that God so loving created. I'd be open with the person who asked me and I'd explain myself.
Lets ask God
Dear God why is it that you allow such pain and suffering in this world. Please tell us. Maybe you could just reduce it a bit. Maybe you could give us a cure for cancer...certainly your omnipotent enough to do that. Maybe you could just provide us with a better painkiller than morphine or heroin. I mean, thankyou so much for the opium poppy...but it really isn't good enough
Please get back to me
Heres my Phone number:
Thanks for your consideration....