The Bible - Which books get to stay or go decided my men - cut & paste old school

by HarryMac 42 Replies latest jw experiences

  • HarryMac
    HarryMac
    Western traditionEastern Orthodox traditionOriental Orthodox traditionAssyrian Eastern tradition
    BooksProtestant
    [ O 1 ]    		Roman CatholicGreek OrthodoxSlavonic OrthodoxGeorgian OrthodoxArmenian Apostolic
    [ O 2 ]    		Syriac OrthodoxCoptic OrthodoxOrthodox Tewahedo
    [ O 3 ]    		Assyrian Church of the East
    Pentateuch
    GenesisYesYesYesYesYesYesYesYesYesYes
    ExodusYesYesYesYesYesYesYesYesYesYes
    LeviticusYesYesYesYesYesYesYesYesYesYes
    NumbersYesYesYesYesYesYesYesYesYesYes
    DeuteronomyYesYesYesYesYesYesYesYesYesYes
    History
    JoshuaYesYesYesYesYesYesYesYesYesYes
    JudgesYesYesYesYesYesYesYesYesYesYes
    RuthYesYesYesYesYesYesYesYesYesYes
    1 and 2 SamuelYesYesYesYesYesYesYesYesYesYes
    1 and 2 KingsYesYesYesYesYesYesYesYesYesYes
    1 and 2 ChroniclesYesYesYesYesYesYesYesYesYesYes
    Prayer of ManassehNo
    (Apocrypha)
    [ O 4 ]    		No – inc. in some mss.Yes (?)
    (part of Odes)
    [ O 5 ]    		Yes (?)
    (part of Odes)
    [ O 5 ]    		Yes (?)
    (part of Odes)
    [ O 5 ]    		Yes (?)Yes (?)Yes (?)Yes
    (part of 2 Chronicles)    		Yes (?)
    Ezra
    (1 Ezra)    		YesYes
    1 Esdras    		Yes
    Esdras B'    		Yes
    1 Esdras    		Yes
    1 Ezra    		Yes
    1 Ezra    		YesYesYesYes
    Nehemiah
    (2 Ezra)    		YesYes
    2 Esdras    		Yes
    Esdras Γ'    		YesYesYesYesYesYesYes
    1 Esdras
    (3 Ezra)    		No
    1 Esdras
    (Apocrypha)    		No
    3 Esdras
    (inc. in some mss.)    		Yes
    Esdras A'    		Yes
    2 Esdras    		Yes
    2 Ezra    		Yes
    2 Ezra
    [ O 6 ]    		No (?) – inc. in some mss.No – inc. in some mss.Yes
    Ezra Kali    		No – inc. in some mss.
    2 Esdras 3–14
    (4 Ezra)
    [ O 7 ]    		No
    2 Esdras
    (Apocrypha)    		No
    4 Esdras
    (inc. in some mss.)    		No
    (Greek ms. lost)
    [ O 8 ]    		No
    3 Esdras
    (appendix)    		Yes (?)
    3 Ezra    		Yes
    3 Ezra
    [ O 6 ]    		No (?) – inc. in some mss.No – inc. in some mss.Yes
    Ezra Sutu'el    		No – inc. in some mss.
    2 Esdras 1–2; 15–16
    (5 and 6 Ezra)
    [ O 7 ]    		No
    (part of 2 Esdras apocryphon)    		No
    (part of 4 Esdras)    		No
    (Greek ms.)
    [ O 9 ]    		NoNoNoNoNoNoNo
    Esther [ O 10 ]YesYesYesYesYesYesYesYesYesYes
    Additions to EstherNo
    (Apocrypha)    		YesYesYesYesYesYesYesYesYes
    TobitNo
    (Apocrypha)    		YesYesYesYesYesYesYesYesYes
    JudithNo
    (Apocrypha)    		YesYesYesYesYesYesYesYesYes
    1 MaccabeesNo
    (Apocrypha)    		YesYesYesYesYesYesYesNoYes
    2 MaccabeesNo
    (Apocrypha)    		YesYesYesYesYesYesYesNoYes
    3 MaccabeesNo
    (Apocrypha)
    [ O 11 ]    		NoYesYesYesYes
    [ O 6 ]    		YesNo – inc. in some mss.NoYes
    4 MaccabeesNoNoNo
    (appendix)    		No
    (appendix)    		YesNoNo (?) – inc. in some mss.NoNoNo (?) – inc. in some mss.
    JubileesNoNoNoNoNoNoNoNoYesNo
    EnochNoNoNoNoNoNoNoNoYesNo
    1 MeqabyanNoNoNoNoNoNoNoNoYesNo
    2 and 3 Meqabyan [ O 12 ]NoNoNoNoNoNoNoNoYesNo
    Ethiopic Pseudo-Josephus
    (Zëna Ayhud)    		NoNoNoNoNoNoNoNoYes
    (broader canon)
    [ O 13 ]    		No
    Josephus's Jewish War VINoNoNoNoNoNoNo – inc. in some mss.
    [ O 14 ]    		NoNoNo – inc. in some mss.
    [ O 14 ]
    Testaments of the Twelve PatriarchsNoNoNoNoNoNo – inc. in some mss.NoNoNoNo
    Joseph and AsenathNoNoNoNoNoNo – inc. in some mss.NoNoNo
    (early tradition)
    [ O 15 ]    		No
    Wisdom
    Book of JobYesYesYesYesYesYesYesYesYesYes
    Psalms 1–150 [ O 16 ]YesYesYesYesYesYesYesYesYesYes
    Psalm 151NoNo – inc. in some mss.YesYesYesYesYesYesYesYes
    Psalms 152–155NoNoNoNoNoNoYes (?)NoNoNo (?) – inc. in some mss.
    Psalms of Solomon [ O 17 ]NoNoNo – inc. in some mss.NoNoNoNo – inc. in some mss.NoNoNo – inc. in some mss.
    ProverbsYesYesYesYesYesYesYesYesYes
    (in 2 books)    		Yes
    EcclesiastesYesYesYesYesYesYesYesYesYesYes
    Song of SongsYesYesYesYesYesYesYesYesYesYes
    Book of WisdomNo
    (Apocrypha)    		YesYesYesYesYesYesYesYesYes
    Sirach (1–51) [ O 18 ]No
    (Apocrypha)    		Yes
    [ O 19 ]    		YesYesYesYesYesYesYesYes
    Prayer of Solomon
    (Sirach 52)
    [ O 20 ]    		NoNo – inc. in some mss.NoNoNoNoNoNoNoNo
    Major prophets
    IsaiahYesYesYesYesYesYesYesYesYesYes
    Ascension of IsaiahNoNoNoNoNoNo –
    liturgical (?)
    [ O 21 ]    		NoNoNo
    (Ethiopic mss.)
    [ O 22 ]    		No
    JeremiahYesYesYesYesYesYesYesYesYesYes
    Lamentations (1-5)YesYes
    [ O 23 ]    		YesYesYesYesYesYesYes
    (part of Säqoqawä Eremyas)
    [ O 24 ]    		Yes
    Ethiopic Lamentations (7:1-11,63)NoNoNoNoNoNoNoNoYes
    (part of Säqoqawä Eremyas)
    [ O 24 ]    		No
    BaruchNo
    (Apocrypha)    		YesYesYesYesYesYesYesYes
    [ O 25 ]    		Yes
    Letter of JeremiahNo
    (Apocrypha)    		Yes
    (chapter 6 of Baruch)    		YesYesYesYesYesYesYes
    (part of Säqoqawä Eremyas)
    [ O 26 ] [ O 24 ]    		Yes
    Syriac Apocalypse
    of Baruch
    (2 Baruch 1–77) [ O 27 ]    		NoNoNoNoNoNoYes (?)NoNoNo (?) – inc. in some mss.
    Letter of Baruch
    (2 Baruch 78–87) [ O 27 ]    		NoNoNoNoNoNoYes (?)NoNoYes (?)
    Greek Apocalypse
    of Baruch
    (3 Baruch) [ O 28 ]    		NoNoNo
    (Greek ms.)    		No
    (Slavonic ms.)    		NoNoNoNoNoNo
    4 BaruchNoNoNoNoNoNoNoNoYes
    (part of Säqoqawä Eremyas)    		No
    EzekielYesYesYesYesYesYesYesYesYesYes
    DanielYesYesYesYesYesYesYesYesYesYes
    Additions to Daniel [ O 29 ]No
    (Apocrypha)    		YesYesYesYesYesYesYesYesYes
    Minor prophets
    HoseaYesYesYesYesYesYesYesYesYesYes
    JoelYesYesYesYesYesYesYesYesYesYes
    AmosYesYesYesYesYesYesYesYesYesYes
    ObadiahYesYesYesYesYesYesYesYesYesYes
    JonahYesYesYesYesYesYesYesYesYesYes
    MicahYesYesYesYesYesYesYesYesYesYes
    NahumYesYesYesYesYesYesYesYesYesYes
    HabakkukYesYesYesYesYesYesYesYesYesYes
    ZephaniahYesYesYesYesYesYesYesYesYesYes
    HaggaiYesYesYesYesYesYesYesYesYesYes
    ZechariahYesYesYesYesYesYesYesYesYesYes
    MalachiYesYesYesYesYesYesYesYesYesYes
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biblical_canon#Alexandrian_Fathers
    This was one of the biggies for me... all this fighting about scripture. What gets to stay in the accepted biblical canon was decided by a group of self-important men.
  • HarryMac
    HarryMac

    ^oops

    'decided by men'

  • Heaven
    Heaven

    Harry, very interesting chart. It would be interesting to know the reasons for not including the books listed.

    I find it an interesting experience when I ask believers if they believe the Bible to be literally true and they say emphatically 'Oh yes!' and then I proceed to give them examples of where the Bible fails in that regard. At first they try to argument 'context' but that doesn't usually stand up given my examples. They sometimes even admit they know the Bible has been altered over the years. So why do they believe it to be literally true? It's like they've never thought about it before. To me, this is scary.

    My conclusion is that if there is a god he wouldn't need a factually inaccurate, contradictory, error-prone book that was voted on for content by an ancient council of men and needs interpretation by select other men to let us know who he is.

  • mP
    mP

    WOuld be very interesting at a verse level. Id imagine there would be thousands of changes.

  • mP
    mP

    H:

    You got to wonder why God didnt write it on the side of a granite rock so it would almost last forever. THe Persians wrote some text on a rock and its very mych readable thousands of years later and going strong.

  • DesirousOfChange
    DesirousOfChange

    Why do JWs accept the Bible Canon as selected by the Apostate Church of Christendom but not the doctrines (Trinity, Immortal Soul, Cross, etc) that were chosen by the same group? It's my understanding that all of these decision were made years after the death of the Apostles.

    Doc

  • AndDontCallMeShirley
    AndDontCallMeShirley

    DOC: Why do JWs accept the Bible Canon as selected by the Apostate Church of Christendom but not the doctrines (Trinity, Immortal Soul, Cross, etc) that were chosen by the same group? It's my understanding that all of these decision were made years after the death of the Apostles.

    ---

    I've asked this same question many times. The other question it raises is: Why did god allow the Catholic Church to canonize the scriptures- if it were, indeed, "apostate" as the WT claims?

    Furthermore, the Watchtower's justification for the need of The New World Translation was that ALL other translations had become so corrupt that a new, updated (read: error-free) translation was necessary to correct all the errors that had accumulated over time.

    Would this not call into question the veracity of any Bible, including the NWT, which used the same manuscripts the other "corrupt" Bibles were also based on?

    And, would it not call into question god's power, if he lacks the ability to preserve the integrity his own Word?

  • DNCall
    DNCall

    The WTS' published answer to when the Bible canon was established is: by the end of the First Century (i.e., before the apostacy). I don't recall any proof of this position other than the qualifiers "apparently" and "evidently." The basic teachings of the Bible are said to have been preserved by God through the centuries. It is also held that the NW translation addresses needed adjustments that have come to light in modern times, as well as to present the Bible in modern language. So far, this explanation has been satisfactory to the JWs.

  • trujw
    trujw

    DNC I so agree the bible was canonized by the holy Catholic Church. The jws I think only address this a couple of times in 135 years. Their was no bible in the first century as we know it. Unlike the mention of the faithful and discreet slave isn't it up to 17,000 thousand times in the watchtower cd.

  • HarryMac
    HarryMac

    I almost feel bad posting this for people not ready for that level of 'truth'. It's a kick in the nuts.

Share this

Google+
Pinterest
Reddit