Do You Fear Death?

by Cold Steel 50 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • cofty
    cofty
    if you cease to exist, what difference will anything you do here and now make in the grand scheme of things? - cold steel

    Because you don't want to accept this you go to the temple, wear magic underpants and force yourself to believe a thousand incredible things.

    When you are gone it will be in vain.

    Reality is what still exists whether or not we choose to believe in it.

    We can have wonderful lives without superstitious notions about imaginary spirit worlds. The fact that it really does end at death only gives it more urgency.

  • talesin
    talesin

    Oh, and this ...

    There's a lot of humorous cynacism in atheism, but in the end, if you cease to exist, what difference will anything you do here and now make in the grand scheme of things?

    TUT TUT!

    Check JeffT's post about his father, and you will see how wrong that statement is!

    Also, here's a few examples of people who made a difference to MILLIONS of people for the rest of time ... just off the top of my head, a few scientists you 'may' have heard of ...

    Insulin Insulin is a hormone produced in the pancreas. It was isolated in 1921-22 at the University of Toronto. The scientists involved in the research were Dr. Fredrick Banting, Charles Best (a medical student at the time of the discovery), Professor J. J. R. Macleod and Dr. James Collip. On June 3, 1934, Dr Frederick Banting the co-inventor of insulin was knighted for his medical discovery.

    POLIO
    Two polio vaccines are used throughout the world to combat poliomyelitis (or polio). The first was developed by Jonas Salk and first tested in 1952. Announced to the world by Salk on April 12, 1955, it consists of an injected dose of inactivated (dead) poliovirus. An oral vaccine was developed by Albert Sabin using attenuated poliovirus. Human trials of Sabin's vaccine began in 1957 and it was licensed in 1962. [1] Because there is no long term carrier state for poliovirus in immunocompetent individuals, polioviruses have no non-primate reservoir in nature, and survival of the virus in the environment for an extended period of time appears to be remote. Therefore, interruption of person to person transmission of the virus by vaccination is the critical step in global polio eradication. [2] The two vaccines have eradicated polio from most countries in the world, [3] [4] and reduced the worldwide incidence from an estimated 350,000 cases in 1988 to 1,652 cases in 2007. [5] [6] [7]

    Telephone, Hydrofoils, and Aeronautics

    Alexander Graham Bell (March 3, 1847 – August 2, 1922) was an eminent scientist, inventor, engineer and innovator who is credited with inventing the first practical telephone. [N 3]

    Bell's father, grandfather, and brother had all been associated with work on elocution and speech, and both his mother and wife were deaf, profoundly influencing Bell's life's work. [4] His research on hearing and speech further led him to experiment with hearing devices which eventually culminated in Bell being awarded the first US patent for the telephone in 1876. [N 4] In retrospect, Bell considered his most famous invention an intrusion on his real work as a scientist and refused to have a telephone in his study. [6] [N 5]

    Many other inventions marked Bell's later life, including groundbreaking work in optical telecommunications, hydrofoils and aeronautics. In 1888, Bell became one of the founding members of the National Geographic Society. [8] He has been described as one of the most influential figures in human history.

  • return of parakeet
    return of parakeet

    Cold Steel: "Oh, come on 'keet, what possible purpose can any person have if when they're dead, they're dead?"

    We will have passed on to our children and their children our traditions, values, and our love. Scientists will have passed on their knowledge of medicine and other endeavors that have made so many of our lives better. Artists will have left their music and arts.

    I don't "believe" as an article of faith that when a person is dead, "they're dead." I don't know for certain, and neither does anyone else, what happens after death.

    Cold Steel: "And why should it be insulting? I spent an entire semester with a professor of philosophy quoting the most prolific atheist philosophers throughout history saying that everything man does is for nothing."

    The Bible says the same thing about everyone, religious or not.

  • return of parakeet
    return of parakeet

    Cold Steel: "I spent an entire semester with a professor of philosophy ..."

    This kind of statement is an example of the logical fallacy of appealing to authority. You hope that we will be impressed by the thoughts of such a learned man and miss the errors in your argument.

    My husband is a full professor, Ph.D. and all. I've known plenty of very well-educated people. Your constant references to professors and universities do not impress me.

  • return of parakeet
    return of parakeet

    Cold Steel: " Solomon, after marrying heathen wives that led him away from God, wrote the book of Ecclesiastes, one of the most gloomy philosophical works in scripture. "

    Yet it's part of the Bible, a work inspired by God. Or don't Mormons believe Ecclesiates was written by God? Or do you only use the "nice" parts of the Bible?

  • return of parakeet
    return of parakeet

    Cold Steel "has left the building."

  • sizemik
    sizemik

    Maybe Woody Allen put it best ...

    "I don't fear death ... I just don't want to be there when it happens."

  • Cold Steel
    Cold Steel

    Nope, I haven't left the building...I've just been recovering from surgery.

    You guys display the hopes and pride many people feel, whether religious or not. Also, I'm not appealing to authority, but to logic.

    If this life has meaning, it can only come from God. If we have a beginning, we also have an end. And if we are fully mortal, completely subject to death and a cessation of being, then how in the world can we find any meaning in anything we do.

    Latter-day Saints believe in an eternal scheme of things. This life has meaning, not to be fulfilled here, but to develop us for the future. Do I believe Ecclesiastes is part of the Bible? Obviously, but I don't necessarily view it as scripture. Not all scripture is equal, and Solomon (like many others) reviewed his life in his last days and found himself wanting. He wasn't a prophet or priest, but a king. In his earlier days, before his transgressions and, some believe, his senility, his outlooks were quite different. It's the same with all of us. I read Ecclesiastes and think, here's a guy who had some serious issues. Could he possibly be happy? In his younger days, he most likely was impressed by the wisdom and intelligence of men, and about the accumulation of wealth. I don't believe for an instant that he was writing about what happens to us at death; rather, he was writing about how the wisdom of men is foolishness with God. Regardless how lofty man's thoughts are, in the end they perish with us. This doesn't mean we cease to exist. It means that from man's standpoint, nothing man does is lasting.

    Now as far as early Christianity (and Mormonism) is concerned, one's purpose ceases when he no longer is able to progress. Origen, an early Christian theologian, writes: "After death, I think the saints go to Paradise, a place of teaching, a school of the spirits in which everything they saw on earth will be made clear to them. Those who were pure in heart will progress more rapidly, reaching the kingdom of heaven by definite steps or degrees." What does anything we do matter if our existence is to be cut off? Once the sun burns out and man's legacy is long forgotten, who will care about the sufferings, learning, wisdom, progress, civilizations and works of man? Unless another civilization masters space travel and records these things for others, it's all doomed to perish. You come to Earth and learn all your life and acquire wisdom, then you die. To me that's not a meaningful existence. We will be dead, our children and parents will be dust. At that time it won't make any difference whether you eased the sufferings of others or raised armies and committed genocide. There will be no memory or judgment; anything you learned will be lost.

    Also, it's stated that no one can know what comes after death? That's like saying no one can possibly know if there's a Los Angeles. There are many accounts of people who say they visited Paradise (some were atheists). If they're being truthful, then it's possible that they know. Hallucinations are completely different from the accounts such people record. In hallucinations, details are vague and there's little intelligence in what is conveyed. Colors, clothing and such are foggy and the details are flighty, changing as quickly as the mind changes. Memory of hallucinations also are muted, but many near death experiences are vivid and as easy to remember as a conversation with your neighbor.

    So again, what value are the things we're learning if everything is to be cut short? That's my question. And it's not meant to be insulting. Philosophers over the ages have been debating this as long as man has had language and the ability to communicate.

  • smiddy
    smiddy

    Maybe this is one thing the bible / jw`s have got right , death ends it all "their is no knowedge or wisdom in the grave " and as others have pointed out I have no knowedge of any previous existence prior to my birth and so dont have any expectancy to have any after my demise.It would be a pleasant surprise if their was some sort of existance after death but I wouldnt bet on it .I dont fear death as such as long as it is quick and non painfull.

    smiddy

  • return of parakeet
    return of parakeet

    Cold Steel: " So again, what value are the things we're learning if everything is to be cut short? "

    And again I answer, the value in learning is to better our lives and the lives of others and the lives of our children and their children.

    I'd say that's tremendously valuable. I'd say that's the only value that matters.

    I hope your surgery wasn't for anything very serious, and I hope you recover quickly, Cold Steel.

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