Every day life in North Korea

by fulltimestudent 10 Replies latest social current

  • fulltimestudent
    fulltimestudent

    What's your reaction when you see a photograph like this? A couple relaxing at the beach.

    North Korea

    or, this, where a family enjoy a picnic in a pleasant park?

    North Korea

    North Korea

    Some North Korean men drink and sing inside a pagoda. They look like they are having a good time. Could be Bethel boys, couldn't they?

    after moving past the question, "Is it genuine" - and, they seem to be, we may conclude, that wherever humans live

    they try to make the best of of the circumstances in which they live. We likely had a good time on occasion as Jws.

    It's true that for the unfortunates who offend politically, life will likely become terrible. But the most common estimate for the prison/labour camp population of NK is about 200,000. Even if the figure was a bad estimate, and the prison/labour camp population was closer to 1,000,000, it still leaves 23 million "free" people in NK. ( http://worldpopulationreview.com/population-of-north-korea/ )

    The population of Pyongyang is estimated at approximately 3,250,000. The top echelon are believed to live in Pyongyang, and below the top rankers you have a second ring of technocrats that make the system work. These days that group will include computer programmers and technicians and even nuclear scientists. Below that again will be the people who make life good for the top two tiers. Some may even live outside Pyongyang (perhaps not considered completely trustworthy) and commute into the city.

    These are the groups that can be seen at play in the photographs that some westerners take. (as above)

    Those piks (btw) were published on a News Ltd site in Australia. (So I don't consider it likely that Rupert M. will publish fake images of NK life ) Web Link: http://www.news.com.au/breaking-news/photos-capture-ordinary-daily-life-in-secretive-north-korea/story-e6frfkp9-1226542567923

  • Eve Deceived
    Eve Deceived

    Um...I sincerely hope you're using the term "free" very, very loosely.

    NO -- Scratch what I just said above. North Koreans, even with the exclusion of those imprisoned in labor camps, still live under a dictatorial rule, and that does not fit any definition of "free."

    Definition of "free" according to Merriam Webster Dictionary:

    1 a: having the legal and political rights of a citizen

    b: enjoying civil and political liberty <free citizens> c: enjoying political independence or freedom from outside domination d: enjoying personal freedom : not subject to the control or domination of another 2 a: not determined by anything beyond its own nature or being : choosing or capable of choosing for itself b: determined by the choice of the actor or performer <free actions> c: made, done, or given voluntarily or spontaneously 3 a: relieved from or lacking something and especially something unpleasant or burdensome <free from pain> <a speech free of political rhetoric> —often used in combination <error-free> b: not bound, confined, or detained by force 4 a: having no trade restrictions b: not subject to government regulation cof foreign exchange: not subject to restriction or official control 5 a: having no obligations (as to work) or commitments <I'll be free this evening> b: not taken up with commitments or obligations <a free evening> 6 : having a scope not restricted by qualification <a free variable> 7 a: not obstructed, restricted, or impeded <free to leave> b: not being used or occupied <waved with his free hand> c: not hampered or restricted in its normal operation Uh, so what is the point of this post exactly? It was lost on me.
  • yadda yadda 2
    yadda yadda 2

    What is your point? Anyone can post a few propaganda pictures and make generalised opinions/assumptions.

    It is generally well understood that North Koreans like under an oppressive, intolerant, unfair and cruel regime where humans rights are systematically abused and millions of North Koreans are suffering terribly as a result. The famines, gulags, and suffering are well documented.

    Apart from the obvious information control and brainwashing comparisons to the JW organisation, I don't think there is much comparison.

  • Indian Larry
    Indian Larry

    If you would like to know what everyday life in N. Korea is really like, read this book:

    Nothing to Envy: Ordinary Lives in North Korea by Barbara Demick

    A National Book Award finalist and National Book Critics Circle finalist, Barbara Demick’s Nothing to Envy is a remarkable view into North Korea, as seen through the lives of six ordinary citizens

    Award-winning journalist Barbara Demick follows the lives of six North Korean citizens over fifteen years—a chaotic period that saw the death of Kim Il-sung, the rise to power of his son Kim Jong-il, and a devastating famine that killed one-fifth of the population. Demick brings to life what it means to be living under the most repressive totalitarian regime today—an Orwellian world that is by choice not connected to the Internet, where displays of affection are punished, informants are rewarded, and an offhand remark can send a person to the gulag for life. Demick takes us deep inside the country, beyond the reach of government censors, and through meticulous and sensitive reporting we see her subjects fall in love, raise families, nurture ambitions, and struggle for survival. One by one, we witness their profound, life-altering disillusionment with the government and their realization that, rather than providing them with lives of abundance, their country has betrayed them.

    I read it and it is a fantastic book.

  • wha happened?
    wha happened?

    All their photo's are staged. And photo shopped. They control all information leaving the country.

  • fulltimestudent
    fulltimestudent

    Interesting to see the reaction. Thank you for your views. Wha happened is, of course correct, much information leaving NK is faked.

    But were these piks 'staged' or 'faked?'

    I did not note any attribution of source. My only guide to their likely genuiness was the web-site.

    The web-site covers the Australian media sources of News Ltd, whose owner is one Rupert Murdoch. Rupert is rather well known in the USA as the owner of FOX NEWS, which is a bit right-wingish, is it not?

    I have no idea why Rupert's web-site decided to publish these piks. Well, I do have an idea - but, maybe later.

    Do I personally believe that the piks are genuine? I ask a question in response, how do YOU imagine north Koreans live every day? Do you imagine some fantastic picture of a heavily armed, scowling guard on every street corner and in every house? If you do its bullshit. The only people who say that are propaganda makers in south Korea. The NK government does not need to operate that way? If you have a network of informers, and carefully segregate your population, there does not need to be an armed guard presence, until you get down to labour camp level.

    Now, just to irritate those with fixed opinions about 'freedom.' Here's a video (hope it plays) of a former North Korean spy, who was caught decades ago in South Korea, imprisoned, served his gaol sentence and then released in south Korea, but has not been given permission to go home to NK. He wants to go home to NK! But for whatever reason the SK government won't let him. Every week, he and others in the same situation demonstrate in SEoul (and yes! He would not be allowed to demonstrate in Pyongyang).

    Listen to him as he tells of his desire, "(to return) to the warm embrace of the party." (i.e. the Korean Workers Party) Once again I point out that this is a web-site belonging to the (rightwing) Mr. Rupert Murdoch, of Fox News fame. Obviously, there is more to "freedom" than dictionary definitions.

    Web-link: http://video.news.com.au/2382478210/North-Korean-spies-yearn-for-home

  • mrsjones5
    mrsjones5

    Folks go back to the bOrg for the warm embrace of family.

  • fulltimestudent
    fulltimestudent

    There is another news story about NK in the Australian news this past week. I'll post about the source first (grin) this time.

    It emanates from this man, Professor Stewart Lone, who teaches at the Australian Defence Force Academy. He's also taught and lectured at some other well-known Universities.

    (from his web-site)-

    Lectures, seminars, presentations at UNSW Canberra, Australian National University, Cambridge University, Columbia University, Kyoto University, London University, Melbourne University, National Institute of Defence Studies (Tokyo), Princeton University, Sheffield University, Takushoku University (Japan), University of Kansas

    Visiting Professorships: Cambridge University, London School of Economics (London University), National Institute of Defence Studies (Tokyo), Sophia University (Tokyo)

    (his web-site is at: http://hass.unsw.adfa.edu.au/staff/profiles/lone.html )

    He's just spent a few months in NK, teaching.

    Here's what he said on his return:

    What if we're wrong about North Korea? Australian Professor Stewart Lone argues

    • by: By Daniel Piotrowski
    • From: news.com.au
    • May 01, 2013 10:26AM
    • 'The most repressed society on Earth'?
    • No way, says Aussie who taught in Pyongyang
    • "I saw young people secure, contented and proud"

    WE OFTEN hear North Korea is a deprived nation, 'the most repressed society on Earth'.

    But what if that's just baloney?

    Our stereotype of North Korea is totally inaccurate, says a top Australian scholar who knows the country better than most. It's the modern day version of "yellow peril" - the xenophobic fear of Asian culture

    Professor Stewart Lone, from the Australian Defence Force Academy, spent months teaching English to North Korea's future leaders from 2010 to 2012. Now he has provided a rare and sometimes romantic account of life in North Korea in the book Pyongyang Lessons: North Korea From Inside The Classroom.

    The country is much more advanced than many people believe, he writes.

    You can even pick up Kylie Minogue or David Beckham-branded perfume in the shops, despite the fact barely anyone knows who they are. Tom and Jerry is on TV, mobile phones and foreign cars are popular in Pyongyang. And in his view, the people certainly aren't scared or deprived.

    "Having spent a good deal of time in the company of more than 400 North Korean teenagers, I dismiss the idea that everyone lives in fear and privation," Prof Lone told news.com.au. "I saw young people who were secure, contented and proud of their society."

    "The stereotype of North Korea... is the contemporary version of 'the yellow peril' and follows many of its key features (irrationality, brutality, docility)".

    North Koreans are so used to hardship that they may be better prepared than us with some of challenges of the future, Prof Lone writes.

    Stewart Lone

    Prof Stewart Lone with a class in North Korea.

    He argues that unlike here, the North Koreans still hold on to a sense of community, citizens are not afraid of each other when they walk down the streets and they don't entertain themselves with movies and TV shows about horror.

    THE FLIPSIDE: Reporter Dan Piotrowski interviews a North Korean who fled the country, fearful of becoming someone who ate human flesh

    The kids are all right, too, he says. Unlike several North Korean defectors have argued, Prof Lone denies that children are "brainwashed" into adoring the country's troubled regime.

    Like millions of children around the world, they really love football (the national football team has made it to the World Cup in the past). Many are obsessed with soccer stars Ronaldo, Messi and former Brazilian great Pele.

    He said a favourite phrase of children was that they were blessed by the "warm love of Marshal Kim Jong-il", but they said it out of dedication, not slavery.

    "Where one has choice, one has freedom," he writes. "The general belief was, and is, that the leader exists to oversee their security and their welfare.

    "Whatever was positive in their lives could be attributed, at least in part, to his benevolence. Whatever struggles they collectively encountered, his presence ensured they would be protected."

    One of the biggest problems with the world's dealings with North Korea is a lack of respect, Prof Lone writes.

    He says it was because the Western world does not reflect on how it must appear to Koreans.

    Read more: http://www.news.com.au/world-news/what-if-were-wrong-about-north-korea/story-fndir2ev-1226631780873#ixzz2SGTAv7Qj

    Curiously, News Ltd, chose to associate this pik with the story:

    Pyongyang

    Do you think they are smiling because they're scared, or maybe these are people closely associated with the leadership who are having a good time at whatever place Kim Jong-eun is visiting. Like western politicians, Kim seems to spend a lot of his time visiting new facilities (as well as army bases-smile)

  • fulltimestudent
    fulltimestudent

    So to respond to the question, what's the point - I respond by saying - to inform. NK is a critical area in contemporary life, we should understand as clearly as possible how it works.

    I once let my mind become the captive of an idea. I made a mistake, and I've learned the lesson. I will never let my mind be imprisoned by someone else again. No matter whether it's my country, another country, a religion, an idea, a teacher, a person or anything. My mind is free and its going to stay free.

    Chinese philosophy teaches: "A student must first of all learn to doubt," and, "follow the path of inquiry and study." If I had done that 60 years ago, I would not have wasted my life in the vain worship of a non-existent entity.

  • fulltimestudent
    fulltimestudent

    Now here's a photograph you do not see everyday,

    DSC02766

    The caption explains the image:

    Michael Bassett, constructivist DPRK analyst, US Senatorial consultant, and retired US Army Tank

    Commander/Platoon Sergeant, gets a hug with a North Korean army commander last week on the

    North Korean side of the Demilitarized Zone - real world diplomacy through foreign tourism in North Korea.

    Photo by Joseph A Ferris III

    Ferris claims to work on a US flagged ocean survey ship, and spends his 5 month a year vacation period conducting

    tours to North Korea and other politically difficult places in the world.

    Link to Ferris's web-site: http://americaninnorthkorea.com/young-pioneer-tours/

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