If Fizzy and others come back and apologize about this specific aspect of the AAWA lynching once they realize the enormous hole they have dug for themselves I would be surprised.
However, it would be appropriate.
Why isn't anyone on JWN invited to the Facebook discussion by AAWA tonight?
by wha happened? 159 Replies latest watchtower scandals
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Paralipomenon
Appologies don't exist on the internet.
There is a black hole that swallows them up before they can ever reach their destination.
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Mad Sweeney
Marvin Shilmer
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Finally-Free
I don't know about the laws in the US, but in my own government forms and articles of incorporation it clearly states that misrepresentation constitutes an offense and is punisable by fine, imprisonment or both. This is printed on several pages, including the one that states my name and address.
In any event, the AWAA trumpeted it's existance and faces its first scandal all in a single week. Bravo! If only the watchtower had fucked itself up so swiftly! Why on earth did the AWAA publish their articles on the internet in the first place? Was it really necessary?
From the outset I thought this endeavor would fail, but not from criticism from the very people the AWAA claims to support. I thought it would come in the form of a watchtower lawsuit because of the inclusion of the word 'watchtower' in the name. Naturally, the outcome of such a suit would be questionable, but it wouldn't be the first time the cult buried someone with legal costs and red tape.
As it stands, the credibility of the AWAA is in question, and the cult boys are probably laughing their asses off, if they've even had a chance to hear about the AWAA yet.
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HintOfLime
If what the Arizona Corporation Commission said is right - it won't be me going to jail. If they were wrong - oh what a hole I've dug for myself! Repeating information and having an opinion on the Internet. Woe is me.
But... I'm pretty sure the ACC knows what they are talking about.
You'd have to be an idiot to dismiss the ACC responding to a clear, direct question with "that would be an act of fraud and a felony".
- Lime
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OUTLAW
I`m told Cedars information has been reviewed and is fine..
It is legal in Arizona no matter what that Arizona Sec. of State reply to the JWN said.
It doesn't apply to someone like Cedars.
Have all doubters call the attorney that is listed on the corporation charter. He'll put everyone straight.
I trust my source..
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...OUTLAW -
HintOfLime
It doesn't apply to someone like Cedars.
Wow. Isn't he special.
Well, wish them the best of luck with that. Between Nevada law, US bills like the Securities Act, etc... I'm sure that it is a sound business decision that in the long term has a lot of benefits and carries very little risk for the AAWA. It fits so well with their mission statement bit about "transparency" as well.
(Pulls out a bag of popcorn)
- Lime
PS: At least they confirmed it with their attorney.
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Tylinbrando
I see no issues whatsoever with AAWA's credibility. The board members have a vast collective history of pro active success against Watchtower. Barbara Anderson was a solid founder and will no doubt continue to support AAWA as she can.
In conjunction with the board, there will be thousands of more than capable volunteers carrying out the tasks of activism. AAWA could certainly review its membership and possibly conduct a reboot to put many people at ease. It will ultimately be up to the board of directors.
AAWA will be fine. Let's revisit in a year and talk about the success.
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fizzywiglet
If Fizzy and others come back and apologize about this specific aspect of the AAWA lynching once they realize the enormous hole they have dug for themselves I would be surprised.
However, it would be appropriate.
LMAO. Awwwwww. You people are adorable. Wrong, but adorable. You’re trying so hard. I’d be happy to apologize if I were incorrect (in fact, I did concede a point to Chaserious earlier, albeit a minor, fuzzy and moot point). Buuuuuuut…I’m not incorrect.
Do you plan to address the following? I’m curious why you keep ignoring this option:
Call the Arizona Corporations Commission. I have provided you with their email address and phone number. I’ve even provided you with the name of the ACC representative who helped me. Call them. 5 minutes. Easy-peasy. Ask them if a corporate officer (for either a nonprofit or an S corporation) may use a pseudonym/alias and an address that is not his own on the articles of incorporation.
Do it. Please. Be my guest. But it’s very silly to accuse me of lying when I’ve already asked the ACC and invited you to verify this.
You people want soooooo badly to find a loophole for AAWA; you keep insisting I’m wrong or digging myself into a hole, and then say “Well, I don’t want to waste ‘extensive time’ doing the research myself”. You'll spend hours arguing the point, but won't make a 5-minute phone call.
For example, should I assume that in your research you came across State v. Carroll
Chaserious, Marvin should really be addressing you as “someone who knows how to copy-paste text but doesn’t know what it means”. The case law you have linked (circa 1973) refers to a man signing a business check with an assumed name that he had used for some time, was the same name on his bank account, etc. It has nothing to do with corporate legal documents such as the articles of incorporation. Cedars can call himself John Cedars to his heart’s content anywhere he likes, even while blogging about AAWA, whatever. If he is able to open a bank account under that name, he is free to sign checks with that name (any bank is gonna ask for documentation that you are legally recognized by that name, of course. I know because my mom remarried when I was 6 and no legal name change paperwork was ever filed in court…however, the bank, the DMV, the Social Security Administration, etc. required I provide school records, etc. showing that I had legally assumed that name over 5 years ago, because it didn’t match with my birth certificate, before they would let me open a bank account, get a driver’s license, etc.)
And even though I’ve used that same last name for over two decades, and it’s the last name on my driver’s license, credit cards, bank account, etc…when I went to get a passport, they would only issue it under the name on my birth certificate, with my current last name added as an “aka”. Because there are just some documents that the law requires you use your full legal name on. If I wasn’t willing to accept that, they would refuse to issue me a passport.
So yeah, Cedars can use any pseudonym he wants in real life. But…not on the Articles of Incorporation.
You’re a joke!
Au contraire, my dear. I am dead serious.
Was Marion Morrison lying and perjuring himself by signing his name as John Wayne and using an agent’s address in order to keep people like you away from him and his family?
LOL, ‘people like me’? I’m not approaching anybody’s family. In any event, Marion Morrison went by a stage name (“John Wayne”), as did Archibald McLeach (“Cary Grant”).
And that’s fine. You can use any stage name/pen name/pseudonym you want, without legally changing your name, for plenty of normal everyday things.
But not on Articles of Incorporation. If you choose to play “corporation” or “nonprofit”, them’s the rules.
(Tangentially, a bit of trivia: John Wayne never legally changed his name; he signed legal papers as Marion Morrison. Fox executives did not like his real name, they were the ones who chose John Wayne as his stage name, a name he never really liked or took to; he preferred to be referred to as “Duke”, his childhood nickname.)
Do you really think David A. McEvory, Esq. would place his career in jeopardy for the few measly dollars it takes to file a charter like AAWA’s?
As has already been pointed out, I’ve filed these before. I used to be a paralegal. I worked for an attorney for two years and prepared incorporation paperwork for clients on a regular basis. Were you ever certified as a paralegal? Did you take classes in legal research? Were you taught to use Westlaw and Lexis Nexis? Please, enlighten me as to your credentials here.
Anyway, I prepared these filings on a regular basis. As I already said higher up in the thread, attorneys don’t do a background check or anything on the directors. They ask the incorporator for the names/addresses, fill in the forms, incorporator signs and notarizes them, mail them in, boom, bang, done.
I trust my source..
Meh, last time you trusted your source, you perpetuated a story that turned out to be untrue on nearly every point.
Lawyers represent their client. A lawyer isn't going to admit that their client is wrong or lying. It's not their job to be honest to a random stranger calling and asking questions; it's their job to represent their client. They could actually be sued for malpractice if they were honest about a client being in the wrong; they are supposed to recuse themselves if their conscience prohibits them from representing a client they know is in the wrong, but they are not supposed to admit it.
Sooooo, thanks. I went straight to the source; I'll believe the ACC over the lawyer getting paid by AAWA. I'm not trusting a lawyer's "word" over the ACC's. One has an agenda. The other does not.
ACC was very clear. His name is not John Cedars. He does not live at Richard Kelly's address, or even in the United States. It was misrepresentation.
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wha happened?
I think someone touched on this on the responsibility of the attorney. He has none is he is unaware of the deception. Someone else is signing the paperowrk under penalty of perjury. That's the party who is liable.
Curiosity caused me to call an old associatte in Tucson. I have some business coming up out there so I may ask some questions, copy some forms etc etc.
But none of the legalities have anything to do with the God Awful idea of including people into something without their knowledge, then excuse one's self in the name of something bigger. The ends justify the means, I suppose.
...OUTLAW