Designs my friend, most of the idiots that deny man made climate change will continue to do so until they are under water or living in a desert. Likely even then. Those who make a bundle off of fossil fuels work hard to maintain their ignorance.
'1600 years of Ice melting in 25 years is a bad omen'
by designs 165 Replies latest social current
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designs
Berengaria- we create these artifical communites in areas that could not normally sustain 22 million people by drawing heavily from outside resources. It works for awhile and then you sort of hit this wall. Just our garbage alone is a huge problem here as all of the landfills reached capacity years ago. We have one huge mining pit owned by Alcoa they want to use but it sits on top of an aquifer. The counties also want to fill a canyon about 10 miles east of us, we have been fighting it for 20 years, it to sits on top of an aquifer. Monday night our Green Group meets to discuss the impact of the nuclear power plant on our marine life and other safety issues as Edison is filing to reopen that unsafe power plant. Edison makes a $million per day from San Onofre Power Plant.
Peru is planning to drill through the Andes to tap the Amazon water shed to sustain cities in one of the earths driest regions because they can no longer get enough water from the Andes.
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Berengaria
It's past time to think about population control, but that is contrary to capitalism. We are screwed.
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mP
Lisa:
The term "global warming" is not being used as much in the scientific community because climate change does not make all areas warmer. While overall the temperature is rising, specific areas can be, at least temporarily, colder. In addition, raising carbon dioxide levels also impact currents and weather, it is not just temperatures being impacted.
mP:
My bet is you have never even checked temp change graphs and yet you believe. Is that responsible ? Most people i have ever asked just believe they have not even looked at the evidence.
Lisa:
While you can argue that climate change is not happening or is not a problem, the fact that temperatures in one area are colder proves nothing.
mP:
DO you realise how stupid that statement is ? North America and Europe both have had cold winters, thats pretty significant especially when your preaching the opposite.
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mP
Design:
mp- I did not say I believed the conclusions of the scientists working in the Andes, I was posting about their findings and the conclusions they believe in. If the glaciers and snow pack in the Andes are showing a major shift in 3 decades we at least need to study why and address solutions.
mP:
And what about snow pack meltings in the Andes before the 1900s ?
Designs
Personally I am more concerned with pollution from our industrialization and the waste from our industrialization. My theory is that as we address pollution we may slow offshoots of pollution such as warmer basins, water sheds becoming dryer or shifts in seasons. These pollution factors have been in visible effect in the So. Cal. area where I was born and still live. A fairly dense forest that stretched from Glendale to East of San Bernardino in our local mountains is gone on the south facing slopes, gone in 60 years. Our aquifers have pollutants in them, our land-fills are over capacity and give off methane gasses. The fog belts that use to stretch from Santa Monica Bay East to Riverside no longer appear, or rarely in that same 60 year period. 22+million people along with industrialization has had a major impact on this environment.
mP:
I agree completely with yoru concerns about pollution. Its the real problem, but unfortunately business doesnt want to discuss this as its incompatible with their goals for money. When they can monetize pollution to their advantage they will.
Today gov charge in some places a carbon tax and then basically keep the money. Nothing really changes. Surely if they were serious they would first off ban 4WD and other stupid gas guzzlers. Its just another bullshit reason to tax people.
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steve2
I've no doubt humankind has contributed to the global warming we are currently experiencing. However, attention needs to also focus on the impact of solar activity on global warming.
In addition to the noted human tendency to stick one's head in the sand to avoid facing unpleasant "truths" (no reference to the Watchtower intended), there is also a noted human tendency to see the Apocalypse in everything. Neither willful ignorance nor knee-jerk alarmism is helpful.
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mP
Ber:
go look at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Temperature_record_of_the_past_1000_years
You will see some interesting graphs that kind of dont make sense. Between 1880 and 1920 temperature drops for 40 years straight before travelling back up afterwards. Theres another graph that shows our temperature averages match those of 1000AD. The graph goes up and down since that time.
Explain that ?!
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QC
I agree, make sure you get a clear picture of the evidence.
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Berengaria
I'm on my way to bed, so I'll not be trying to explain anything tonight.
I would ask you two questions. Why is it that over 90% of climate scientists agree that man made climate change is an issue, and how/where were you directed to that Wiki article?
The article you reference specifically points out that before 1850 information is necessarily "reconstructed". After 1850..............
Bu I don't claim anything at this point, I took a very cursory glance.
Goodnight.
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moshe
As long as we have ice sheets and glaciers, the temperatures will be slow to rise-- 80 calories of heat is needed to melt one gram of water at 32 degrees- once it melts, each calorie of heat will increase the water temperature by one degree. In like manner, when water freezes it gives up 80 calories of heat, which is why the farmers spray water onto strawberries and oranges in an attempt to keep the crops from getting any colder than 32 degrees to avoid a hard freeze. If at some point our glaciers and ice caps do melt away, we will then see a extremely fast temperature runaway effect. - maybe around the end of the 21st century- unless we have a super volcano to darken the skies and cool things off- it takes very little to trigger the start of a new ice age. Like they say, life is a crap shoot.
