by The Searcher 63 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
The process is the same in the UK. Take a look at the following page on the Charity Commission web site for our assembly hall:
The graphics speak for themselves but if you look at any of the audited accounts available online on the that page you will see the raw data that proves that when they plead poverty each assembly they are lying - the expenses are actaully half what the donations from the circuits/congs are.
It's a pure money making machine.
Good Grief - I had no idea - I was sooo naive.
I think most rank and file are, they do not put 2+2 together
This information astounds me. I was convinced of the absolute
"purity" of this organization, unbelievable. I was like many here.
I clung to the ideas no matter what the evidence. The "core" beliefs,
I couldn't comprehend what was actually going on for so long.
I read COC in about 1990 Then it was still a long journey to free
myself from the lingering belief that the doctrines were correct.
So - just to get it straight - what you think is correct seen from the side of the houseowner who had his house destroyed, is to have volunteer JWs rebuild his house for free, receive new furniture donated either as furniture or as money given by JWs, and THEN receive and keep the full amount of insure money paid to him by his insurance agency?
Both ways, in other words?
"how it could possibly cost $9-$10,000 per day to use our own assembly hall?"
Well, it was built once, wasn't it? And that did cost some money, did'nt it? And that means loans will have to be paid, doesn't it? Just for the record, our convention hall has now been fully paid, zero loan or debt, and so there are no more calls for deficit and how much needs to be paid for a convention day.
First of all Old Hippie, Im sure the call for money at circuit assemblies varies around the world - our assembly hall is fully paid for also but we still get the deficits announced. Have a look at an old thread called Circuit Accounts Servants Confesses how the SCAM WORKS!! It was by a poster who'd actually been on the accounts department and knows how it was all worked out. Like I said, Im sure it varies around the world somewhat, and that was an old post. No one is suggesting that these halls are free.
In relation to the Katrina/ Insurance thing. Perhaps a more appropriate thing for the Work Crew Team leader would be to encourage the recipient of all that voluntary labour to use some or all of their insurance cheque to help the volunteers out with their expenses, rather than give the estimated cost to the WTS. Or not suggest anything at all, just know that someone who is a brother or sister will do the right thing, and let them exercise their conscience in the matter!
Marking this thread for future reference.
OMG !!!!!!!!!!!!!
this is appaling. I'm truly shocked. I had no idea. It's just disgusting. Immoral. And sooooooooooo wrong.
This should be made PUBLIC. To some newspaper or something.
I am so disgusted by this. It's so wrong.
Please God this organisation will get it's 'payment in full'
This is exactly how I'm feeling.
Perhaps AAWA can help JWs aware of this as well.
Alec
I'm not sure what to think about this. I lean toward what OldHippie said, though: Why should a homeowner get to double-dip, so to speak? It doesn't seem fair to me that a homeowner should get his house restored and then be able to keep all the money.
However, it is apparent that the Society is running a scam, and a profitable one at that. It's a real tragedy that anyone can become homeless in the blink of Mother Nature's wrathful eye. But if the Brothers have insurance, then those folks should be able to take care of themselves, and the Society should offer their help to those without the means to pay it back.
The whole point of Christianity is to "love your neighbor", meaning to be generous and compassionate to those who can't repay you. When Jesus healed (supposedly) the 12 lepers, he did it knowing that they wouldn't be able to pay him back; only one of them even bothered to say Thank You. But Jesus didn't seem upset about it.
So does the Society offer relief in places where they know that they won't be repaid? For instance, did they send relief crews to Haiti a couple of years ago in the aftermath of the terrible earthquake? Did they send people, supplies, and money knowing that the only reward would be "treasures in heaven?" Or did they figure that worldly agencies could it handle better? I'd think a little more highly of them if they sent help. My guess is they DID...............but only in the form of token help..........just for show, like the Pharisees..........in order to keep the cost down. Waaaay down. That's the way they operate.
Anyway, I still don't know what to think of a Witness homeowner getting his house fixed for free and then keeping all the money. He shouldn't allow the Brothers to even touch his house; instead, he should direct them to the house across the street where the elderly couple lost everything and have nothing and NEED the help. Now that would be Christian.
I think this stingy, profit-mongering attitude has been inadvertantly instilled in Witnesses by the Society, so maybe the little dogs learned it from the big dog, if you know what I mean.
David
TheOldHippie said:
"So - just to get it straight - what you think is correct seen from the side of the houseowner who had his house destroyed, is to have volunteer JWs rebuild his house for free, receive new furniture donated either as furniture or as money given by JWs, and THEN receive and keep the full amount of insure money paid to him by his insurance agency?
Both ways, in other words?"
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ADCMS: Not once did I or anyone else here suggest the JW homeowner should get their home repaired for free and then keep their insurance check too. I made that clear in my comments. What I did say is that quoting the homeowner a rate that would be charged by a secular, for-profit company for the same work is not right. The WT pretends it had a huge outlay of material and labor costs that it needs to be compensated for. It's untrue.
As I said earlier:
Quoting the couple a figure of $30,000 was out of line. I have no doubt this couple would've donated something to the WT disaster relief once they got their check, because they were very appreciative, but the way the WT goes about it really amounts to blackmail. Expecting full retail repayment with zero outlay on Watchtower's part is unconscionable.
Regarding the exhorbitant daily "rent" fees for assembly halls, TheOldHippie said:
"Well, it was built once, wasn't it? And that did cost some money, did'nt it? And that means loans will have to be paid, doesn't it?"
ADCMS: I'm not sure if you are being deliberately obtuse or you breeze through comments here so fast you don't really understand what's being said. The assembly hall I attended was fully paid for before construction was completed. Therefore, a cost of $10,000 a day to use it is beyond explanation. Saying" it was built once, wasn't it"? and "that did cost some money, did'nt it?" shows you completely missed the point or refuse to see it. Everyone here understands that there are ongoing costs, like electricity, water, routine maintenance, etc. But when you figure up annual "rent" collections versus these actual expenses, the figures don't add up.
Let me illustrate it in a way you might understand:
If you paid off your mortgage, but your bank continued to send you a bill every month in the amount of your mortgage, would you continue to pay it without question? If you questioned your bank as to why you were still being billed for your mortgage after paying it off, and your bank replied, "Well, it was built once, wasn't it? And that did cost some money, did'nt it? And that means loans will have to be paid, doesn't it?", would you find that to be an acceptable answer? If you say "yes" then I'd have to question your sanity. Your flip question answers the question: yes, the Assembly Hall was built ONCE-that's the point! That means one time- not over and over again. Yes, it did cost money- no one here thinks assembly halls are free. You present completely vacuous statements that seem to have no other purpose than to provoke arguments.
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david_10 said: "I lean toward what OldHippie said, though: Why should a homeowner get to double-dip, so to speak? It doesn't seem fair to me that a homeowner should get his house restored and then be able to keep all the money....Anyway, I still don't know what to think of a Witness homeowner getting his house fixed for free and then keeping all the money. "
ADCMS: No one here even remotely suggested anything like this. Re-read the comments. The JWs we did work for were very, very appreciative and I have no doubt they would have made generous donations in order to help others. However, quoting them inflated/unrealistic cost figures is not honest. For argument's sake, let's say that Watchtower had $1,000 in actual costs associated with helping a JW family repair their home. Expecting $30,000 for that work is a scam. Suggesting that, once they get their insurance check, they would consider donating that amount, or a little more, back into a fund to help other families get the same assistance is reasonable. I don't know how you can conclude anyone here was saying that a homeowner should get a nice payday out of it. Are you related to TheOldHippie by any chance?
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I agree with SkyGreen: In relation to the Katrina/ Insurance thing. Perhaps a more appropriate thing for the Work Crew Team leader would be to encourage the recipient of all that voluntary labour to use some or all of their insurance cheque to help the volunteers out with their expenses, rather than give the estimated cost to the WTS. Or not suggest anything at all, just know that someone who is a brother or sister will do the right thing, and let them exercise their conscience in the matter!
ADCMS: None of the volunteer JW workers got a dime to offset their personal costs, and none of them expected that- they volunteered out of genuine love. However, for WT to expect compensation for those volunteer's efforts, when WT had no cost, is unconscionable. I know many JWs who absorbed thousands of dollars in personal costs in order to help- time off work, donating materials, travel expenses, lodging, food, etc.
Did they read the scripture (to the homeowners) of hananias and sapphirra (or whatever their name was that gave only 1/2 the $$$$$ of the land sale in the new testament)?
LOL
and
SAD
ADCMS: ... Are you related to TheOldHippie by any chance?
No, ADCMS, I've never met him, although he doesn't seem like such a bad person to me. I do think that you might've misunderstood my post, though. It had been a long day, the hour was late and maybe I didn't express myself as clearly as I could have. But read it again and see if you come up with the same interpretation.
David
