The resurrection fantasy, the last desperate illusion?

by Slidin Fast 23 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  Witness My Fury

  Physics itself tells us, nothing can be destroyed, it only changes form.

  Err no it doesn't.

  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conservation_of_mass

  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conservation_of_energy

  The destruction and permanent total loss of DATA is absolutely a reality.

  As a simplified example, ...Take a CD or DVD and burn it in fire to destroy it, where has the data gone now? Does the DVD have a soul?

  Same applies to human brains, the DATA does not exist beyond the physical layout of the interconnections in the brain, destroy the brain and the data is lost. Brain damage as the result of trauma is an example of this.
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  slimboyfat

  Their view of resurrection, and the materialist basis for human subjectivity, make me think they are perhaps uniquely placed among religions to adopt the ideas of transhumanists.

  Maybe, at some future time, some reforming GB member could push the idea that Jehovah will not save mankind at all, but that man will save himself through science, defeating again, death, disease, hunger and want.
• 

  jwfacts

  Quarterback - "The resurrection will not be a clone. A clone doesn't have your personality, memories, etc."

  That is not correct. A clone can have the same personality and memories. I think you are confused, because presently humans cannot clone memories when the clone a living being, but they most likely will be able to in the future. When a computer is cloned, it can have exactly the same "memory" as well as physical body, which is all that a JW resurrected human will be. Since what Jehovah resurrects is just a clone, there is nothing to stop him making multiple such clones, and if he did which one do you think will be you?
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  TheOldHippie

  God keeps you in His memory, He is a God for the living, the from our viewpoint dead ones live in Him, He views them as living - and then he gives them a new physical body. I cannot see that as a clone, because they during all the in-between time have been living in His memory as individuals.
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  Larsinger58

  Who "we" are is the conscious memory of ourselves. The physical body only houses that entity.

  The 1st resurrection is thus described as a "seed" that is sown into an imperfect body at 1 Corinthians 15. So for the first resurrection, those who died in Christ and must be resurrected before the millennium are actually implanted into living modern anointed ones and thus they share a body and identity. The living anointed ones perhaps experience the "memory" of a previous life.

  That's why the 1st resurrection is completely invisible! But that is also quite brilliant to resurrect the past dead into the bodies of the modern living because there are no adjustment or orientation issues. Those resurrected come back speaking a modern language and having all the knowledge and history of what happened from the time they were first here until now!

  At the second resurrection, obviously individual bodies will be provided for the dead who come back much like the "angels" and thus in bodies that are likely androgynous, that is, having both aspects of male and female. There will be no marriage at this time and no new children; but that doesn't mean there will be no sex. Only, since everyone is unisexual at this point, it will be possible to have an intimate (sexual) relationship with every other human on the planet, sort of like in a big, open marriage. Now imagine if there were say 4 billion people on the planet who end up getting everlasting life. Let's say a computer program arranges for you to meet and live with each person on the planet for a year in a different location on the planet every other year. This process would take 8 billion years to complete. That is, at the end of 8 billion years, you will have lived with and had sex with every other human on the planet and likely lived in every single city, apartment and home on the entire planet as well! God's greatest creation in the earth are humans!
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  Black Sheep

  It gets worse. The resurrected don't marry, so if your spouse dies before Armageddon then Jehovah finally drags his butt out of the privey the next day, your ex spouse now gets resurrected with a perfect body and you can't even go for a quiet snog behind the bike shed without incurring Jehovah's wrath. The object of your desire is going to spend eternity celibate.
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  2+2=5

  This process would take 8 billion years to complete. That is, at the end of 8 billion years, you will have lived with and had sex with every other human on the planet

  This might be paradise for some. I think I'll give it a miss.
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  jwfacts

  TheOldHippie - God keeps you in His memory, He is a God for the living, the from our viewpoint dead ones live in Him, He views them as living - and then he gives them a new physical body. I cannot see that as a clone, because they during all the in-between time have been living in His memory as individuals.

  With the traditional view of a person having an immortal soul, it is not a clone as the soul enters a new body. But with Watchtower doctrine, it is taught that the spirit that goes back to God is devoid of personality and is simply like electricity. If Jehovah remembers the person and then at a later point recreates that person with new atoms and new spirit it is a clone. Since it is possible that Jehovah could create through resurrection 2 of the same person, imbuing them both with the same memories, you would have to agree that at least one is a clone of the other.
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  sir82

  because they during all the in-between time have been living in His memory as individuals.

  "living in his memory"

  So humans have an immortal soul after all? Something that never dies?

  If not, then what, exactly, is "living in his memory"? And what is that "thing" that is "in his memory" doing, exactly? If not doing anything, in what sense is it living?

  And which scripture answers those questions?

  You've fallen into the trap the WT has fallen into thousands of times in its 130 year history:

  -- Develop doctrine A

  -- Doctrine A has a logical hole

  -- Develop Doctrine B to plug hole

  -- But Doctrine B leads to 2 other logical holes

  -- Develop doctrine C to plug 2 new holes

  -- But Doctrine C has 4 new logical holes

  -- Repeat on to infinity
• 

  Satanus

  'I cannot see that as a clone, because they during all the in-between time have been living in His memory as individuals. '

  The only way that that could be true, is if those people continued existence within jehovah. Instead, they are purely data in gods memory. The data is fed into the body semblence of them, which god fabricates and animates w the electricity type life force. Like in a photocopy machine, the original stays in its tray, while the light reads its data and reapplies the data to a new piece of paper, which pops out in another tray.

  OH, you would have us believe that believe that the digital bits, stored in the chips of the photocopier in between its reading of the original page and its reprinting on the new page is really, still the original page. How can that be, when the original page is still in the upper tray?

  S