WTS action on Conti's case 3/27/2013

by mind blown 85 Replies latest watchtower scandals

  • Chaserious
    Chaserious

    "If that was to happen the WTS will have to have a strong case, because a pure question of law or new issue will have to be presented by undisputed facts."

    Well, that's true, but this is basically how all dismissal motions work, and appeals also. You basically have to say that even if we believe everything the other side says with respect to the facts, there is still no legal right to compensation, and therefore the case against you should be dismissed (or overturned on appeal).

    My concern is that to my knowledge, a duty to protect ordinary members from one another on their own time has never been imposed on a religion before. Even if the California Supreme Court hasn't spoken on it either way, several other state supreme courts have said there is no such duty.

    For example, from Maine:

    "The creation of an amorphous common law duty on the part of a church or other voluntary organization requiring it to protect its members from each other would give rise to both unlimited liability and liability out of all proportion to culpability." Bryan R. v. Watchtower Bible & Tract Soc., 738 A.2d 839, 847 (Me. 1999).

    Connecticut and New Hampshire have basically said the same thing, and likely other states as well. While the California Appeals courts are certainly not obligated to follow precedent from other states, I am concerned that they won't want to give their stamp of approval to a new duty that has been fairly widely rejected.

  • Scott77
    Scott77

    "The creation of an amorphous common law duty on the part of a church or other voluntary organization requiring it to protect its members from each other would give rise to both unlimited liability and liability out of all proportion to culpability." Bryan R. v. Watchtower Bible & Tract Soc., 738 A.2d 839, 847 (Me. 1999).
    Chaserious

    Hi Chaserious,

    I do not want to go into details but happened at that case? Also, is the watchtower the largest and most litigious religious cult group in the United States?

    Scott77

  • Gypsy Sam
    Gypsy Sam

    Is there something we can do?? To show support for Candace and/or sign a petition to submit to the appeal court??

  • Aussie Oz
    Aussie Oz

    David 10... ''I said in another thread that the Society has something up their sleeve, and, believe me, they do.''

    What do they have up their sleeves that you say we should believe you about?

    please explain...

    Oz

  • Chaserious
    Chaserious

    Hi Chaserious, I do not want to go into details but happened at that case?

    Hi Scott,

    The Bryan R case involved a boy who was sexually abused while growing up by a member of his JW congregation. The molester, a man named Larry Baker, had molested someone before and the elders knew about it, and deleted the abuser as a minsterial servant after the first abuse case, but didn't warn the members of the congregation, and then he abused the Bryan R. victim. The victim got a judgment against the abuser, but the court allowed the congregation and the Watchtower to be dismissed from the case before it got to trial and the Maine Supreme Court upheld it on appeal.

    It doesn't appear that there was correspondence with the WT Society in that case, unlike in the Conti case, but I don't think it would have mattered at least for that court since the they were very clear that there was no legal duty to protect members from other members.

    You might find it interesting also that the local Maine Roman Catholic diocese filed a brief with the court in support of the Watchtower in that case.

  • david_10
    david_10

    David 10... ''I said in another thread that the Society has something up their sleeve, and, believe me, they do.''

    What do they have up their sleeves that you say we should believe you about?

    please explain...

    Oz

    Hello there, Oz. I was just making an observation and expressing an opinion when I made that statement. In fact, the exact quote from the other thread is: " So they've got something up their sleeve. I don't know what it is, but they know how the legal system works and they are very proficient at using it to their advantage."

    So I don't know what they have in mind. But it's something. The Society is a devious outfit and they know what they're doing. The jury in the Conti case caught them unawares and blindsided them, and I think that they're still in shock over it; but they'll get their bearings and make a fight out of it before it's over with.

    Farkel seems to think the Society's courtroom efforts are laughable. "If any of you have actually seen WTS lawyers defending a case in court, you would laugh so hard you would start hurling. They make the Keystone Cops look like Sherlock Holmes." I sure don't see that. I've never had a ringside seat, so to speak, so I don't know for sure one way or the other, but it's results that count-------------in the last 75 years or so, they've won 48 cases in the United States Supreme Court . Those are remarkable results; unbelievable, in fact. The last time was in 2002 when they argued a case before the supreme court, and, naturally, they won. Instead of being laughed at, it's always been my understanding that everybody is afraid of them and no one wants to go up against them. Personally, I've always felt that the WTBS is the wiliest cat in the jungle.
    But Candace beat the mighty Watchtower! That's the most unbelievable thing of all. She beat 'em!!! Even I'm in shock.

    So they've got something "up their sleeve." I don't know what it is, but we'll all find out. That's why my gut instinct would be to settle this thing before the momentum shifts. But that might not be too easy to do, though: I'm sure the Society would be happy to settle and get this behind them. However, they probably would insist on inserting a clause in the final wording where they admit no liability and are not responsible for what happened to Candace when she was a child. From what I've read about Candace, there's no way she would sign that. So it'll probably have to go through the entire appeals process. Still, I think she should try, and my bet is her lawyers are working on it. We'll see.

    So, Oz, I'm finally getting around to answering your question. And the answer is: take my opinion with a grain of salt.................I'm as much in the dark as everybody else!

    Take care.

    David

  • Rattigan350
    Rattigan350

    Chaserious is correct. There is no duty to proctect unlimited. This case is as bad as people suing dating websites because a person on there attacks someone and they claim that the site did not do background checks or warn. People have the duty to protect themselves just as if they met the person in any other situation and not to rely on others to do so.

  • nonjwspouse
    nonjwspouse

    Rattigan,

    A dating website is very different. There is no pressure not to report to the police in order to protect the dating website. The WT pressures victims and their families to protect the "organization. The JW understood duty is to to go to the elders before going to the police. The elders councel and the JW are supposed to obey the elders. If the elders said they would handle it and to " wait on Jehovah" this is a far cry from a dating website.The elders are counceled in writing not to tell people not to go to the police, but they are strongly encouraged to try to convice them to " wait on Jehovah" and let them handle it.

    The dating website has NO power, and no emotional, social, or spiritual control, and no after the fact advice for the people who might be, or who are, harmed.

  • flipper
    flipper

    NONJWSPOUSE- I agree. Good points

  • mind blown
    mind blown

    California Law WTS and JW's are considered mandated reporters. Period. They deal with the public, they are each considered ministers. Each state has their own codes. Check other threads on JWN to cover your points.

    http://www.cdss.ca.gov/cdssweb/entres/forms/English/PUB132.pdf

    nonjwspouse the WTS pressures vitimes and families to keep silent.

    Farkel is correct. You have to read court transcripts to understand what he's talking about.

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