What was the result?
I have seen answers strewn throughout many posts but never consolidated. This is important.
If you tried to get your doctrinal or historical questions answered by an elder in your cong...
by NeverKnew 32 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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LostGeneration
Unfortunately, the answer is "it depends"
As a short time elder (less than two years) I approached the elders earnestly when I woke up. I was promised answers, but it quickly turned into a witch hunt once my questions were too difficult to answer. They simply didn't have the time or the inclination to answer me honestly, because they couldn't. Of course at times I presented myself as an ass, demanding to know certain things that I knew that they had no answer for, because of the jacked up nature of their doctrine.
Within three weeks they called a JC on me. I attended, but refused to back down from my questions. They DFd me as a matter of convenience. I was ready to go, I only regret not telling them to go fuck themselves and enjoy the afternoon off instead of wasting my time on them. Three hours I will never get back.
Your mileage may vary. A sincere JW asking questions without too much "apostate undercurrent" may be able to get a few elders to give them the time of day. But if the questioning continues, the elders will quickly tire and say "wait on Jehovah" or "pray about it" without much more effort. Continued questioning will result in a JC, and there they will ask allegiance questions about the Faithful and Discreet Slave.
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Bob_NC
I was likely considered the best read, most knowledgeable, elder in our congregation, so there was no one to ask questions of. When I stepped down I told my best friend elder that I would be happy to talk about it all in detail with him privately if he wanted to know. At first he said no, that he didn't need to hear the details.
He changed his mind a few weeks later and said that he wanted to hear what my concerns were about. I gave him a written list of about 8 or 10 things. He asked if the list was "it", "is this what it's all about?" I said yes, that's the main things. We agreed to meet the next weekend to talk it all out. The week went by and I called him to firm up plans for a time over the weekend. He said that he wasn't able and that maybe we could in a week or so. I called him two weeks later and asked about getting together to talk over my list of concerns. Once again he wasn't able. So I dropped it and figured he would call when he was ready. That was 13 years ago. By the way, he was PO and a long time personal friend.
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wasblind
On a visit from two elders ( Shepherding call ) I showed them this :" Perhaps you can recall that God told our first parents, that they could eat from every tree except one. After the flood in Noah's day God again set out one prohibition for mankind. this time it involved blood " ___Reasoning from the scriptures book page 75
I then preceded to ask why is it now ok to do a fraction of what they consider a sin. he said a fraction of blood is no longer a sin
LOL . Don't you jus' love the boys in brooklyn
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humbled
Before I was a Witness,I knew enough of how words and writing developed among humans to understand why the WTS was set on "accurate knowledge". But over time my personal study convinced me that literal knowledge of the biblical past was unlikely--at least in the manner the JWs presented it.
But there was one story that I knew was wrong even before I had studied up on it--before I ever met the JWs. I hated the way the literature (especially the MY BOOK OF BIBLE STORIES) always says God told Abraham to kill and burn his son. Simply not the word that Abraham had usedin connection with his drama with God--- in any translation.
I raised it with elders in one congregation and they told me to talk to the CO next visit--They weren't disturbed with me at all--probably figured I was just a stressed sister w/ unbelieving mate. The CO was very cautious of the topic, mostly refreshed my memory for who the slave was and did I know the care with which our food/info was developed. I reminded him that considering the literature infallible was expressly denied by the WTS in opening chapters of the PROCLAIMERS' book--and did he think we should stop reading the bible if the literature told us all we needed? No, he didn't think that was right. He wasn't mean to me, but he wasn't able to help me. He said maybe I needed to put it as" a question from readers."
I soon learned that was a dead end if you hoped the FDS would study and pray on it.
I knew an old pioneer sister who had a son in the writing dept. at Bethel. When she heard I had a concern about the matter, she said she would run it by her son. I had a premonition of the outcome.......He said nothing showed up in the reference literature on it. That's how the holy spirit works? I wondered.
Ultimately I wrote th brothers in my last congregation about no longer being able to say what the bible itself didn't express. Making a statement like that did draw fire. I knew it would. The brothers throughout the next several months were neve free to reason from the scriptures while I had to see the judgemnt passed on me by the Corp, that was itself revealing.
The elders were not free to read and think with me.
The dime dropped in slo-mo for me but drop it did.Especially distubing was the brother that we had always depended on to have "the mind of Christ". He couldn't grasp that even if I was WRONG about my concern, I had to live with my conscience.
The letters leading up to my expulsion/leaving the WTS is in Photo-bucket linked into the JWN search archive: "How I left Jehovah's Witnesses"/Maeve Courteau.
By the way. The WT's response didn't refute-couldn't refute-my stand based on research. ButI was just wrong in principle--they didn't explain why. They just told me to get in line.
The elders never truly search the scriptures --they are scared to.
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AnneB
I tried...once. One Sunday after the meeting I asked an elder how to reconcile two conflicting bits of information in the literature. The elder became agitated and told me that he and another elder would be by that evening, that I should make a written list of my questions. I came home and did what he asked, although I couldn't understand why he wanted "a list" when I had only one question!
Well, the two elders appeared at the appointed time. When I brought out my little piece of paper with the question written on it, the elder wouldn't take the paper, saying "we know all about your questions". I was dumbfounded, as I hadn't discussed whatever it was with anyone, hadn't even been given the opportunity to tell him, and yet he already knew? That was my first inkling that the elder wasn't going to help me figure things out.
There in my own living room, in the presence of my "unbelieving" spouse and my children, both elders ranted for about five minutes, then left. My family just stood there staring at one another, none of us able to comprehend where things had gone wrong. It wasn't until years later, when I found this board and read the experiences of others, that I realized that they probably thought they had an apostate on their hands. If that's what they thought they were so wrong; at that stage of my life I wanted nothing more than to be the very best servant of Jehovah that I could be, hence my request for their assistance. I had no idea...
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Phizzy
Dear Kneverknew, you say this is important, may I ask why ? do you have something in mind ?
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NeverKnew
Phizzy -
This is for people who have been exposed to historical truths of the WTS. The WT material's answers (or lack thereof) may be really bothering them so they should know what chain of events could happen before discussions with their elders.
Please help me.
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MrFreeze
Are you referring to questions about past doctrines and historical questions about the WT organization? Any wrongs in the past are always met with "The light gets brighter," and "This organization is run by imperfect men."
The fact is, most normal JW's or elders know the old history of the WT.
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Larsinger58
I think it is a huge challenge and nearly hopeless to talk with some elders about deep issues. One reason is because in the end, most will simply claim it is not their responsibility to correct anything or challenge anything. They are encouraged "not to run ahead" or be an "independent thinker."
I once talked with an elder who was of the anointed and tried to show him something, but he was resistant. He did say the one thing that he wondered about was in Matthew where it says if the days were not cut short then no flesh would be saved. It seemed clear to him that that meant Armageddon would kill off some of the "holy ones." Obviously! It was something he didn't understand. But neither do the witnesses themselves. They think the "great tribulation" in Matthew refers to Armageddon, but it actually refers to the Holocaust and the "holy ones" is a reference to the Jews that were going to be killed during WWI! Armageddon isn't going to kill anyone righteous! Point being, witnesses have a great capacity for tolerating and overlooking contradictions they clearly see in the Bible, but won't pursue it further since they trust the WTS to give them the truth. They see their role as being faithful and in good standing in the congregation and that is directly related to their getting life.
I also have a cousin who is an elder who ended up discussing in great detail some issues. Bottom line is he figured I must be demonized and have studied the most advanced apostte materials. That is, he didn't think I was coming up with these questions on my own. Then he decided, even though he said what I was telling him seemed to make sense, that whatever I came up with, somewhere in some Watchtower or WTS publication they had an answer to everything that effectively contradicted me. In other words, again, he didn't take responsibility to know this for himself.
The average witness is brain dead. They don't even known their own teachings and they figure if the contradictions don't bother the WTS, then it's not their concern. In their hearts they know this is the "true religion" and they don't see any others, so they are willing to deal with the errors.
