Is this true? Do the elders really do it like this?

by Julia Orwell 44 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  sd-7

  The disfellowshipped one makes the decision to leave

  And here I thought 'the decision had already been made in heaven'! Or that maybe the three elders make the decision to expel the person! What have I been reading in the Watchtower?? I'm so confused.

  In my committee, well, I actually detailed it here on JWN, if you want to read it, under my 'Borg court' threads...I think by the end of it, probably two-thirds of the elders involved were at least convinced of my sincerity and that I wasn't a wicked person, I'd just made some mistakes and had a difference of opinion. But the chairman literally shouted 'em down (I heard him myself from the other side of the door) and I suspect (but can't know for sure) that the decision was primarily his to kick me out and the others just went along with it.

  Anyone who is a JW doesn't need the elders to explain what will happen if they're DF'd. They should already have read it or been aware of it, for one.

  The other thing is, can you explain to me how a difference of opinion or belief, even a minor one, requires "discipline" from elders? Even the thought is wrong, even if you kept it to yourself. When the elders called on me maybe a year or so after the DF'ing, the chairman of the committee advised me to "accept the discipline". He said this in response to my sincere expression of concern, which was that the judicial committee showed me a side of the organization I had never seen before and that it really soured me on ever wanting to come back.

  So in short, the response you got is typical because it doesn't address any serious issues, it just regurgitates the programmed response and makes a sweeping generalization about DF'd people. The person who gets DF'd kind of fits in a rather wide spectrum, from the person who just doesn't care about the rules to the sincerely repentant person who just got the wrong three elders on his/her committee.

  --sd-7
• 

  lriddle80

  Wow, Londo, what a heartbreaking story! I was out for about 2 years and my life was falling apart and so I wanted the whole "prodigal son" return. So I called up my parents and told them I wanted to come home, which meant, return to everything I once knew. I was broken from the world. Then they told me that I could but couldn't bring my "lifestyle" with me. They completely misunderstood my repentence. So I didn't go home and shortly after met my (now) husband and we have a child and a wonderful life, starting going to a baptist church about 4 years ago and now know the truth - Jesus! But what a journey to get here!! My parents/family would never leave either, just because they are ingrained socially and they bought everything hook, line and sinker! I never did get disfellowshipped, and am really avoiding it, to tell you the truth, because I don't want the complete shunning and I don't believe in it. I think people will repent on their own if they are really a follower of Jesus...and, didn't he forgive our sins already? Sin isn't the master of us anymore if we are truly "saved"...what in the world, right? I do believe that sometimes sharing with someone (more like an accountability partner or mentor) if you have fallen into sin, and then you can pray together and encourage each other, but the agony and guilt that sin brings on...that is punishment enough!!
• 

  lriddle80

  I do have a story, though. When I was about 9 (and barely conscious of anything around me, really) I was in class and they asked if anyone would like to be in the paper. I, of course, raised my hand high. So what we had to do was pretend to be working on a...christmas tree cutout thing made of construction paper. Whatever, though, I wanted to be in the paper. So I did it. The next day, of course, it was on the front page and my pink jacket was standing out so clear. So that next book study on Monday night, which was held at a sister's house. I tried to raise my hand to answer and they wouldn't call on me. I then started to raise my hand on every paragraph and they still wouldn't call on me. Some of the people around me suggested that maybe they didn't see me, even though there were only about 20 of us there. I then started to stand up and raise my hand and they still refused. I cried. So that next Wednesday, they called me to the back and told me why they didn't call on me was the article in the newspaper. Oh...oops. Well, so I wasn't allowed to comment at the meeting for about a month. Well, because of the kind of kid I was, that made me not even want to answer very much at all anymore. You think they could have told me that in the beginning of the book study, right. So cruel. I have no doubt they would disfellowship someone on the spot!!
• 

  nugget

  I took time to look at the questions for baptism and nowhere is disfellowshipping and the consequences properly discussed. When I was baptised it was a very general discussion talking about immorality and I could never imagine being in that position. So when a person makes the decision to be baptised the full implications and penalties should they change their mind are hidden from them.

  At the other end when the elders remonstrated with us over Facebookand JWN posts they never repeatedly explained the consequences. It was all top level and implications rather than specifics.

  In fact the doctrine on how to treat DF'd ones changes over time and is not fixed so how can anyone know how they will be treated from one year to the next.

  The person to be DF'd is no longer accepted as part of the congregation so their thoughts and feelings on the matter are considered irrelevent. It would only be necessary to show compassion if a JW felt there was an obligation to do so and currently there is not.

  The JW is trying to justify bad behaviour by making it all about the other person. The truth is she has a choice.
• 

  talesin

  I can offer my personal 'testimony' to this.

  When I was 17, I 'necked' with my best friend, who was an unbaptized JW. Some petting took place. A year later, after another friend committed suicide because he was gay, and I had seen the hypocrisy of the church (drunk elders, my pioneer friends having sex with their boyfriends, shady business dealings) and to be honest, I didn't believe in any of the horseshit they taught (book of Daniel - come on - what poppycock!), I told my parents I could not return to the KH, and was kicked out by my mother immediately (ie, get out by the end of the month).

  For 2 years, I lived a quiet life (no, I didn't do drugs, I was still sexually inactive, etc.), working to support myself, having a roommate. I had not gone to any meetings, conventions, etc. My parents begged me to come to the DA Sunday talk. I gave in to please them.

  While there, one of the elders approached me, and said that they would like to 'talk to me'. I figured it was a shepherding thing, and said, yes, I would, as I had known this man all my life and trusted that he was genuinely concerned about me.

  Well, I walked into the room and there was a Judicial Committee!

  They said that the 'congregation' had been gossiping about my having sexual contact with said young man (who was by this time completely inactive), and asked me for the details of what went on between us.

  Did he touch your breasts? Did you take your clothes off? Oh, they wanted ALL the gory details.

  Are you repentant? Truth be told, I was ashamed and being the naive virgin (well, except for being molested as a child, but that doesn't really 'count', does it? and is a whole other story) I was, I WAS repentant. I told them so.

  They asked if I was returning to the KH, and I said no. In all honesty, I didn't want to come back.

  So, these kind, loving men who had watched me grow up, gave me a choice ---- come back to the KH, or be disfellowshipped.

  I could not live a lie, so told them I could not do what they wanted.

  DISFELLOWSHIPPED

  ONE OFFENSE - a successful fade for two years .... and they came after me. Why? I truly believe it was prompted by my mother. My father was an elder, our family is 4th generation, and my mother is a fanatical control freak.

  The friend that I committed such a serious offense with was no longer active, and we were still friends. Well, after the JC, I refused to talk to him and ended the friendship. Why? Because he had talked about something private and bragged around to the other guys about it. That is what the ELDERS said.

  AND I found out about 2 years later, from the guy who was my friend, that he never gossiped about it. He called me many times, and finally I agreed to talk to him. He had gone to the elders himself and confessed because he felt guilty. No one else knew about it.

  They trapped me with a lie. I could have lied my way out of the accusation, but that is not 'who I am'.

  So, in answer to your question.... that is a LIE. It all depends on whether they want to 'get you' .....

  xo

  tal
• 

  Apognophos

  @lriddle80: Wow, punishing a nine year-old like that.... I am pretty sure that in my home congregation they wouldn't have said anything to a kid at all, leaving it to their parents to explain what they did wrong; suspending your right to comment for a month is borderline effed-up.

  @talesin: Another sad story of elders out for blood. Isn't it pathetic the minor transgressions that they made us feel so guilty over? So, wait you said it was a "DA Sunday talk", you mean a District Convention? They pulled you into a room at the convention hall for the hearing?
• 

  IsaacJ22

  The reality is that elders wield a lot of power in their KHs. JWs - even many XJWs - often underestimate this. It's one of the reasons why one congregation can be surprisingly moderate while another can be strict even by WT standards within the same area. It really boils down to the body of elders.

  If your elders choose to interpret things as being black and white, then that's how it will be. If they choose to look the other way for things that other KHs in your area would DF you for, that's how it will be as well. But only at that KH.

  Most of them seem to fall somewhere in-between. Halls vary more than people seem to realize. Including the uber-JW.
• 

  snare&racket

  Fancy going years without knowing if your children were alive or dead, grandchildren too..... I don't get how a parent could do that. Seems so unnatural, I'm sure parents here would agree.

  But then to post online trying to defend such an unnatural position.....just turns my stomach. Especially when people blame the religion, responsibility exists and it is ours alone. That 'mother' is in a religion that had she as the mother spent a bit more time researching would have seen was BS, before enforcing it on her children, allowing 7 men in brooklyn she has never met, indoctrinate her babies. Forcing them to serve a brutal dictator of a god, whom if she bothered to research would know doesnt warrant'serving or worshipping by his immoral actions alone!

  How could a parent hand over their kids in exchange for unicorns, fairies or invisible sky gods that might maybe exist (in their mind), and if they reject their kids may reward them with everlasting life..... Its sickening!

  EVEN If a god with legitimate special powers offered everlasting life in a paradise and all we had to do was abandon our child for breaking his rules... Decent people would tell that god to go fu*k himself!!!
• 

  snare&racket

  Ps you should reply to her with the picture from a recent mag that says religions shouldn't make people decide between faith and family, then say to her, if they do decide to leave as you said, then as Wt said here do they deserve to lose their family as the price?
• 

  flipper

  JULIA- Your JW former aquaintance who replied to your FB page is full of horse-$hit. Having been the victim of several of these JC meetings myself in the past and having been a victor in getting DF charges against me dropped at one of them - It is NOT entirely our choice whether we are DFed or not. Certain elders may decide to DF you if you look at them wrong, or they don't like you, or even if you ARE repentant - they will DF you anyway if a influential elder on the committee influences the other less dominant elders that you are " evil " or " unrepentant " even if you ARE repentant. You have zero control of the situation.

  Do the elders explain the consequences ? No, they do not . Not NEARLY enough. They don't CARE about your personal consequences, they care ONLY about keeping the congregation " clean ". They may tell you what you need to " come back " , attend meetings, etc. but the hell you'll go through ? Nope, not at all.

  And do DFed ones blame everyone but themselves ? No, not at all. In the 4 years I was DFed ( years ago ) I NEVER blamed anyone but myself ! I never ONCE blamed the organization as I was utmostly respectful ( at the time I was mind controlled and still blinded thinking the GB was faultless, etc. ) and never spoke negatively of the organization. Did it make any difference in how I was viewed by former JW associates ? No. I was still viewed as demonic and under Satan's control.

  Bottom line is JW's are taught to HATE anybody who leaves the organization, whether they are DFed or just fading into inactivity