What if you simply IGNORED being disfellowshipped and continued as before?

by Terry 72 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • Quendi
    Quendi

    If this kind of discussion was allowed among Jehovah’s Witnesses, I’m sure the organization would collapse. It couldn’t stand against a free circulation of thoughts and ideas. I want to say I appreciate the points Terry and Moshe have made and agree with them in principle. We must not and should not remain silent in the face of evil, and these disfellowshipping procedures and the judicial committees that spawn them are nothing short of evil.

    I suppose that we’re now talking about reality versus idealism. I’ve been coming from the former because I really don’t believe that any kind of protest is going to change things in the organization. The ruling clique in Brooklyn seems to be immune from the pressure that might come up from below. They only respond to external forces being arrayed against them. We’ve seen how that works in the past, the switch to the voluntary donation arrangement for literature being just one example.

    This really is a discussion about human rights, as Terry has said. I completely agree with that point. The difficulty here arises with what I’ve been saying all along. Human rights violations are usually committed by secular governments and commercial interests. When that happens, there are legal and legislative avenues for redress. However, when a religion does this, then our options become very few. There is no legal recourse and legislatures will not involve themselves. We’ve also seen how courts have consistently refused to intervene in these cases as well.

    Writing to the WTS is futile and useless as we all know. When I was disfellowshipped, I made my judicial committee look at its own rules of engagement. I cited the Bible and what I knew their elders’ manual said to force them to concede that I was right. They didn’t like it one bit and I’m sure used that to deny my reinstatement for years. Furthermore, I might have won the individual battles with them, but wasn’t winning the war because they alone had the power of granting reinstatement. The conflict with them ended when I decided that I no longer wanted to be reinstated.

    But one thing I did not do was violate WTS protocols. Do these violate human rights? Absolutely! But the fact remains that no external pressure can be brought to bear that would force changes. This organization is no more capable of reform than the old Soviet Union was. It is a religious dictatorship answerable to nobody else.

    In the final analysis, I am saying that I believe it is a waste of time and effort to get either the WTS or the congregations it controls to change the way disfellowshipped people are treated. The harsh shunning is as effective a measure of controlling the rank-and-file publishers as the old Soviet gulag prison camp system was. Soviet violations of human rights ended only when the Soviet Union imploded. But for its entire 74-year existence human rights violations were rampant and routine, bringing misery to tens of millions of people.

    If, however, we decide we want to protest the WTS regimen, then I believe it is essential that we do this the right way. To hark back to Terry’s citing of MLK and the civil rights movement, King made sure that his protests were legal, peaceful and non-violent. In that way, nobody could accuse him and/or his followers of breaking the law and using that as a pretext to perpetuate the injustices they opposed.

    Protestors against the WTS must do the same. Follow its rules. Give congregation elders no pretext to summon law enforcement or impose some kind of ban on attendance at congregation meetings. Do not incite others to anger or in some other way intrude upon their personal space and right to choose their association. In other words, “seek peace and pursue it.” There are ways that can be done and some among us have found success. I encourage those who wish to protest WTS human rights violations to do the same.

    Quendi

  • Quendi
    Quendi

    bttt

  • Terry
    Terry

    Writing to the WTS is futile and useless as we all know.

    I've long suspected the mail from congregations and rank and file members is a harbinger of TRENDS of problems before the tsunami arrives!

    Ironically, if you think about it hard enough, the Watchtower uses the Questions from Readers as their chief avenue of direct changes.

    If the GB is getting thousands of queries on a certain subject they damned well better act fast!

    Otherwise--WHY CHANGED DOCTRINE in the first place?

    If a letter writing campaign were launched "as though" randomly, sporadically and from all different states and countries....who knows what

    response might be forced from them out of fear of reprisals.

    Letter do not have to clearly state you are NOT a JW or that you WERE DF'd. In fact, if one were careful enough and used the proper language and respect....the readers at HQ might simply ASSUME the letter, queries, complaints, etc. were rank and file in good standing.

    I'm just speaking off the top of my head here, you understand.

    My point being: letter writing is POWERFUL!

    I'm old enough and go back far enough to remember that the Society itself launched a worldwide letter writing campaign to the government of MALAWI

    about persecution of Jdubs (who had been admonished to not purchase a government party card!). The GB even provided the template of the message and advised the brothers and sisters to "make it your own languge".

    They UNDERSTAND the power of the written protest!

  • NewYork44M
    NewYork44M

    Terry, life is too short to follow through on such a scenerio. I have no interest in ever going back to a meeting.

    BTW, I am not aware that I am disfellowshipped. So, where do I fit in with your little story?

  • Terry
    Terry

    NewYork44M says: Terry, life is too short to follow through on such a scenerio. I have no interest in ever going back to a meeting.

    BTW, I am not aware that I am disfellowshipped. So, where do I fit in with your little story?

    I won't challenge the premise that life is too short. It is.

    However, it isn't too short for you to come to an ex-JW Discussion group---right?

    Presumably there is a hold on your life that somehow compels you to spend the precious hours of your remaining life on the subject of Jehovah's Witnesses.

    You wouldn't have left as a whole person. They undoubtedly bit a chunk out of you. You have surely lost part of your life.

    A toll has been taken.

    As an ex-elder you've seen it happen.

    Probably MOST DF'd persons deserve to be cut loose. Lots of ne'er do wells are in all the churches.

    But. the few who don't deserve the harsh treatments and the cunning repressive cruelty of dishonest elders are another matter.

    There is Politics involved in being an elder. Tell me that isn't true!

    "I am not the means to any end others may wish to accomplish. I am not a tool for their use. I am not a servant of their needs. I am not a bandage for their wounds. I am not a sacrifice on their altars." Know who said that?

  • NewYork44M
    NewYork44M

    Terry,

    I am the sum of everything that has happened to me up to this point in my life. It took me half my adult life to remove myself from the watchtower. And, you are correct, I never will make a 100% break. I will always have the anger of "what if." What if I had learned the truth about the truth 10 or 20 years earlier.

    But, alas, here we are, two middle aged men, both victims of a cult. Both of us trying to carve out our little impact on the world in the few remaining years left. I consider this time on jw.net as cathartic, But I repeat, I would never go back. Even for a little fun.

  • NewYork44M
  • NewYork44M
    NewYork44M

    There is Politics involved in being an elder. Tell me that isn't true!

    But of course, everything is politics. I have told my story a few times, I was appointed an elder after I came to the realization of the fact that this religion was a scam. So, no holy spirit involved here.

  • Terry
    Terry

    But, alas, here we are, two middle aged men, both victims of a cult.

    If I'm middle aged that means I'll live to be 132 years!!

  • Terry
    Terry

    But of course, everything is politics. I have told my story a few times, I was appointed an elder after I came to the realization of the fact that this religion was a scam. So, no holy spirit involved here.

    The HS moves in mysterious ways "his" wonders to perform

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