Has anyone seen this? The old guys in NY give their thoughts on IN Vitro fertilization

by wha happened? 34 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • Band on the Run
    Band on the Run

    I read the part about IVF on another thread. It struck me again how isolated the GB is from the rest of the world. God favors life. Jesus does, too.

    The GB fixation on Leviticus type details blinds to their eyes to the major themes of the Bible: Love and to Live Abundantly.

    They make so many assumptions. I suppose they are so used to not being questioned. Any normal person would stop them in their tracks. How is life a bad idea. What is so bad about adultery? A penis and vagina interacting or the breaking of safety and trust in a marriage. Severe abuse is more certainlly adultery than mere sexual intercourse.

    Their focus on itsy bitsy assumptions and meanderings through scripture that is far from express blinds them to the main messages of the Bible.

    Of course, who are these men that tell married couples what to do? No one in the world's eyes. Do they have any special Bible training? No.

    They need to get out of private marital matters. People must learn that parts of their lives are private. What would Jesus do? I strongly believe that Jesus would celebrate a new life and be so happy that a child would be raised by loving parents.

    Leviticus does not make the Bible. Obscure verses do not make a whole theology.

  • Justitia Themis
    Justitia Themis

    JWs are not the only religion to take this stance.

    Sigh...studying Catholic Moral Theology right now...ugh. Catholics also do not believe in Assisted Reproductive Technology. What many do not realize is that Catholic hospitals want the ACA to carry a religious exemption so they do not have to provide ART for their employees. It's NOT just about abortion.

    At its core it is, of course, a Divine Law moral theory, but it has shades of Kantian deontology. Rather than link to the Donum Vitae, I am providing this link to a Catholic Bioethicist.


    Here is a short blurb:

    The immorality of conceiving children through IVF can be difficult to understand and accept because the man and woman involved are usually married and trying to overcome a "medical" problem (infertility) in their marriage. Yet the procedure does violence to human dignity and to the marriage act and should be avoided. But why, exactly, is IVF immoral?

    In vitro fertilization brings about new life in a petri dish. Children engendered through IVF are sometimes known as "test tube babies." Several eggs are aspirated from the woman's ovary after she has taken a fertility drug which causes a number of eggs to mature at the same time. Semen is collected from the man, usually through masturbation. The egg and sperm are ultimately joined in a glass dish, where conception takes place and the new life is allowed to develop for several days. In the simplest case, embryos are then transferred to the mother's womb in the hope that one will survive to term.

    Obviously, IVF eliminates the marriage act as the means of achieving pregnancy, instead of helping it achieve this natural end. The new life is not engendered through an act of love between husband and wife, but by a laboratory procedure performed by doctors or technicians. Husband and wife are merely sources for the "raw materials" of egg and sperm, which are later manipulated by a technician to cause the sperm to fertilize the egg. Not infrequently, "donor" eggs or sperm are used. This means that the genetic father or mother of the child could well be someone from outside the marriage. This can create a confusing situation for the child later, when he or she learns that one parent raising him or her is not actually the biological parent.

  • Scully

    The new life is not engendered through an act of love between husband and wife, but by a laboratory procedure performed by doctors or technicians.

    In this modern age, we accept it as the norm that children are conceived through an act of love between husband and wife, but it has not always been so. How many marriages were arranged in centuries and millennia past with young girls who only had just had their first period to much older men who were friends or allies of the girls' respective fathers, who didn't even know - much less love - the husband that was chosen for them, who were expected to be obedient and allow themselves to be raped and bear children for the benefit of a dowry or a legal transaction between families. All with the blessing of the RCC or whatever religious ideology was in charge at the time (including currently in certain areas and certain belief systems).

    For all the flap the church causes over the unloving atmosphere of a laboratory procedure undertaken by two loving consenting adults whose only "crime" is that they dearly want a child, it's a far cry from other kinds of barbaric "procedures" the church blessed throughout history.

  • Scully

    By the way, the WTS has always had a hate on for Artificial Insemination. As early as March (?) 1993, they expanded their hate of reproductive technology to IVF and the use of donor eggs and surrogacy, even though the practice of surrogacy was not only practiced, but permitted in Bible times (Abraham & Hagar, for example), and you could make the argument that Mary was merely a human surrogate for Jehovah in order for Jesus to be born. Never mind the fact that Mary was already betrothed to Joseph when she became pregnant, which was considered adultery at the time and was punishable by stoning.

    How convenient for Jehovah that he was a spirit and unable to be tried in a court based on his own laws.

  • Ding

    The GB persists in creating hard and fast rules in areas where the Bible is silent.

  • Theredeemer

    My wife and I are planning to do ivf this summer. Feels so good to have the freedom to choose the best course without having to listen to idiots who have no business giving medical ( or any kind) commands on the subject!

  • wha happened?
    wha happened?

    For a religion starving for young members, they sure do make it hard to bring a family into this world.

  • LoisLane looking for Superman
    LoisLane looking for Superman

    ThereDeemer>>>>> That is wonderful. Wishing the Best for you and your wife.

    Just Lois

  • Zordino

    Its also another way to keep these couples childless. They're still pushing that regurgitated crap sometimes. Read the Jeremiah publication thats now being studied at the book study and you still see their "suggestive" or even "encouraging" talk on this. Basically implanting this type of lifestyle (remain childless or unmarried so you can serve the WT more fully) into the subconcious minds of their flock. This way, whatever that couple (or single person) accumilate's during their life time can be donated to the WT upon their death or before........ its so Happifying to know that we have such a provision such as the donation arrangement from Jayhoover himself. Sorry to get a bit off topic but these things are also related to their warped thinking on IVF. These guys need a slap upside the Head :)

  • 88JM


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