Revelation 14:3 Who sings the new song???????

by label licker 50 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • ProdigalSon

    Oh good God.... reading this thread is painful.

    The is metaphysical science. Kabbalah, It has to do with frequencies, you know everything is vibrating. The "Logos" creates everything. It comes from the Sun. That's why you celebrate its birthday on December 25th. !44,000 is, among other things, the number of harmonic resonance. You are a reflection of the estrological signs. The entire Bible is about these astrological signs and the activation of the pineal gland. It is not about 12 illiterate fisherman and a jewish rabbi. The Elixir of Life is written in the Scriptures. You can argue about it from now until Kingdome Come it is all the blind leading the blind into a pit. Not to worry though, there's no hell to burn in/ Everybody wakes up and graduates eventually... yawn....

  • Band on the Run
    Band on the Run

    I no longer know if people are writing parodies or whether they are sincere. It makes the forum more interesting.

    It means what you want it to mean. This accounts for the popularity of the Bible. Humans have wondered about these scriptures for thousands of years. Are we to believe that the truth finally emerges in an internet forum?

  • ProdigalSon

    Lol... If you wanna know English, BOTR, go to an English professor. If you wanna know Swahili, you go to someone who knows Swahili. If you want to know Gematria and Kabbalah, go to a Kabbalist.

    Or we can just keep guessing and thinking we'll get brownie points for trying

  • ProdigalSon

    And the funniest, most ludicrous thing ever, is the idea that the 144,000, rather than being martyrs like the Scriptures say they are, are a bunch of spiritless, deluded arseholes judging everybody and their fucking cat and selling Watchtower rags all thier lives

  • AGuest
    LOL. You weird me out with that "hear" literally his voice. I'm not poking you or being mean, just speaking honestly...

    I'm sorry... and I know you don't mean any offense, truly, dear Nibs (again, peace to you!).

    I don't know anyone who hears voices and who knows the Truth.

    I understand that. I know several people, though. I would probably be as skeptical as the next person... had it not occurred with me. Since it did, I gotta put faith in it, you know?

    I'm going to go ask someone I respect deeply if he knows anyone.

    Yes. May I make a suggestion? You could try asking the Truth (John 14:6; 8:32, 36) himself. That is what happened with me. Well, not quite. I asked the Father for him (although I didn't know it at the time)... and he came to me. He reminded of many things, including things that occurred and that he told me as a child... and he's been talking to and leading ever since. That was almost 20 years ago (although I was 3 years old the first time).

    I believe everyone will one day hear his and his Father's voice ("sound of thunder") but that is not now, nor is there anywhere in the scripture which suggests that it is or would be even on a personal level.

    Yes, I agree, everyone will. The voice I hear now, however, is not like thunder at all, but actually pretty quiet, almost like a whisper... and "watery"... like someone speaking from under water or something like that. I think the scriptures and several others verses do indicate that some would hear during my Lord's presence in spirit (but absence in body), though... and on a personal level, as well (Proverbs 8:4-9, 22-24, 30, 31; Ezekiel 3:23; 43:2; Daniel 10:5, 6; Matthew 5:27; 28:20b; John 10:3-5; Revelation 1:15... and many others). Even so, even if they didn't, I cannot deny what has occurred and is occurring with me, dear one. I have learned from the One who speaks to me that it's the writings that should be consulted to determine if what HE says is true... but him that should be consulted to determine if what the writings say is true (John 5:39, 40). So, I tend to go with and follow him and HIS voice (John 10:16, 27;Romans 8:9, 10; 1 John 2:26-28)... using the writings to help those who still walk by sight... versus by faith... if they need that. I don't need to "see it in writing"... or even see him (although I have, many times) in order to hear him... or put faith in what he says when I do.

    So I'm skeptical as to how to accept your 'confession of faith'.

    I understand that, as well. Please know that I am not seeking acceptance of my confession. And I TRULY don't say that to be snarky, not at all, but I know some really NEED others to believe them. I don't. Indeed, I was prepared that many... most... would not. But I truly canNOT deny it, so it really doesn't... CAN'T matter what others believe. I realize that this might be hard to receive, but I think I can promise you that if it occurred with you you would feel the same way. Your choice would be to profess what it TRUE... regardless of whether ANYONE else believes you... or succumb to pressure and give in to what others WANT you to say because they don't believe or can't receive such a thing from you. I choose the former. It has proven to be HUGE blessing for me to do so, too.

    In our brief days of exchange I imagine you know that I've grown to adore you,

    Please do NOT take this the wrong way, dear one... but please don't. First, I am nothing more than a good-for-nothing-servant, and adoration belongs to the MOST Holy One of Israel, JAHVEH... and to His Son and Christ, the HOLY One of Israel, JAHESHUA, the Chosen One of JAH (MischaJah). Second, there are folks here to tend to weep and gnash their teeth at the very thought of someone having adoration for me. So, for the glory of God and Christ... and the sake of those whose consciences can't quite handle it... don't. Just give me the same regard you would give any servant... which I know would be WELL... given that you're a member of the Household of God. Since He and His Son treat ALL of their servants with loving kindness... that's all I ask of you.

    but I also note that you were given his name directly and how to spell it, yet that name is factually false and based on many premises of error. That concerns me that the voice you hear may be attached to that name.

    Do not concern yourself, dear one. I was given that name... and so there's nothing for YOU to worry about. If I am in error, then I am the one who should be worried/concerned, yes? But my Lord did give me that name... and how to spell it. He said that the Hebrew yodh is what we today would call a "j". He said that the use of the "y" is due to the confusion that has surrounded the phonetical pronouncement of the name, which is the same problem with the "waw"... which is actually a "v" in today's alphabets, not a "w". He said that Israel got this mixed up when they were among the Chaldeans and translating the writing to Greek. That in Greek the "j" is shown as what WE know to be an "i"... and that while WE would look at the "i" and think of it as a vowel, it really is what we call a "consonant". He said the Hebrew spellings that many scholars point to are PHONETICALLY correct, but not alphabetically correct. Now, I'm not a scholar by ANY stretch... and I realize that scholars are very learned people in THIS world... but, I mean, I kinda have to go with him. For two reasons: (1) faith... and (2) he asked me who should know his name... which is based on the Father's name... more, him or the scribes? He helped me understand this on a personal level when I received a PM the other from some who spelled my name based on how it SOUNDS... rather than how it was spelled. Phonetics played a HUGE roll in ancient Hebrew spelling.

    Now, you must know my mother thinks I'm under the influence of the "angel of light" and that I have toxic poisioning from preservatives in my toothpaste. So, hey, take with the love that I accept her critique with.

    And I absolutely DO! Please know, I don't have any expectations as to anyone. I'm not dragging any WTBTS "baggage" that says folks have to listen to ME... or they're rejecting God/Christ/the Society/GB/Pope/Rabbi... what have you. I am JUST a servant, nothing more. Now, I realize that that, too, may be hard to receive, given the many who've also claimed to be "servants"... while snatching, scattering, even fleecing God's sheep. So, I get it. I can only tell you what I tell everyone else: ask for yourself. Then put faith in what YOU hear about it. I am just sharing what I am in the hopes of working out MY salvation and that of MY household. I can't make anyone believe or accept what I share... nor do I want to. I'm not out to make disciples - that's not my assignment. MY assignment is akin to what's written at Ezekiel 2:1-3:11. I am sent to "exiled" Israel simply to tell them to seek God themselves... by going to andthrough His Son... who speaks to ALL mankind (but my message is only for Israel)... and not through ANY other human, including myself.

    I am certain that the truth is found when sought open heartedly and the devil flees when you oppose him.

    I did already find the Truth, dear one; better yet, he found me. And yes, the Adversary has fled from me... although every know and again a fellow human will allow themselves to be used toward his agenda. But they don't know that... so how can I hold it against them? It is wearisome, yes, but as my Lord said, we are to pray for them. And I don't mean that in the "Jesus loves you; I'm gonna pray for you" kind of way. I mean in the way my Lord did when he said, "Father... forgive them. They don't know what they've done." Because I used to be blind, too, and not know what I was doing in a similar way. If I want the forgiveness extended ME to stand... then I MUST forgive them. Else, I'm a hypocrite, no?

    So at the minimum, maybe you'll give the name time to simmer and call on "our Father" as his Son taught us all. I can't wait to hear what happens!

    I did. While I reading your threads, while I was walking my puppies, while I was grocery shopping... and then when I returned home. Above is what I was given to share with you. And I was told to offer to you that anything you still have "concerns" about... you should take directly to the Son, if not the Father through the Son.

    I hope YOU can receive this in the same love you offered me, but it truly is in that spirit that I offer it.

    Again, peace to you!

    YOUR servant, sister, and fellow slave of Christ,


  • Pterist

    ***The new song, 144k****

    By the rivers of Babylon, there we sat down, we also wept, when we remembered Zion. We hung our lyres on the willows in its midst. For there those who carried us away captive required of us a song; and those who tormented us required of us mirth, saying, Sing us one of the songs of Zion. How shall we sing the Lord’s song in a foreign land? If I forget you, O Jerusalem, let my right hand forget her cunning. If I do not remember you, let my tongue cleave to the roof of my mouth; if I do not set Jerusalem above my highest joy. (Psalms 137:1-6)

    The congregation of the First Born enrolled in the heavens. The New Creation of the first century Christians raised in Christ after the Gentiles Times ended with the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD. The ending of All spiritual darkness, and Babylons, as represented left on earth shed the blessing of the Spiritual Israel in the heavens to all nations, tongues and people of the only and eternal gospel in Christ as they left what became the NT.Rev 7 rev 14 Romans 11 Shalom
  • nibbled

    Shelby, so tired. Must sleep. Can't process. I'm not concerned for anything, and I don't ask anyone for anything but my Father through his Son. I was told to be wary of the angel as if of light, but I read that not heard it. I was told to test the spirits. I have done so, and always do. But thanks to dealing an incubus when I was young, I learned early how to protect my mind, and watch what I eat. Nothing scares the bejebus out of a WT elder faster than a demon that you can see they never imagined existed. Oh how people love to believe in God but not evil. Yet, before you speak up to confirm your belief in both, please, let me finish my glass of red wine in remembrance in peace, and I offered my time of peace to you with all my love. So please, reflect, pray, and for Pete's sake (literally, he's got the keys, you know) how about give the voices a rest and go to what is just yours and his alone.

    I hope tomorrow when I wake you can offer me what you gained in prayer, silence, not from voices. I hear your voices loud and clear, but I'm interested in something else. Does that make sense? Maybe they are one and the same, but how can you know—how can I know—if you don't try?

    Right now you're telling me that God gave you a name which has nothing to do with his real name, but that you accept that because it's from God.

    I'm curious—not mocking—did he explain why "Jehovah" isn't name but that "Jahveh" is? Did he explain what "Jah - veh" means? Did he explain about David? He loved David. But he decided to wreck all his inspired poetry for a new name? Can you ask him, again, I'm serious—deadly—can you ask him did he let the letter J come to be so he could use it for his name? Can you ask him what he was called before then?

    Curious, you know many people who were innocent and offered scholarly quality work to the WT have been beheaded, as it were, for it, right? Carl isn't the only one who has produced work that was given the option to either squash it, modify it, or be excommunicated for it.

    ProdigalSon I've studied the evolution of worship from Egypt to Babylon as an influence on the Hebrew nation of Israel, I particularly loved the book From Jewish Magic to Gnostism by the Italian guy, but the scriptures are clear that that is specifically the influence that they were to keep pure from, and of course, did not. I find it fascinating all the suble variations one degree off from the truth there are to keep us simply in at least one degree of separation. I'm very curious to hear more from you. For you, I share this:

    Band, if you're done with your critique of scripture, maybe you'd be interested too?

    People are sharing how what they do affects how the think. I'm a cogsci designer who studied communication and social sciences with a focus on gender, ethnicity and culture.

    Cognitive science is the interdisciplinary scientific study of the mind and its processes. It examines what cognition is, what it does and how it works. It includes research on intelligence and behavior, especially focusing on how information is represented, processed, and transformed (in faculties such as perception , language , memory , reasoning , and emotion) within nervous systems (human or other animal) and machines (e.g. computers).

    Cognitive science consists of multiple research disciplines, including psychology , artificial intelligence , philosophy , neuroscience , linguistics , and anthropology . It spans many levels of analysis, from low-level learning and decision mechanisms to high-level logic and planning; from neural circuitry to modular brain organization. The fundamental concept of cognitive science is "that thinking can best be understood in terms of representational structures in the mind and computational procedures that operate on those structures."

  • Ucantnome

    'Obviously, then although Revelation 14:3 says that the 144,000 have been "brought from the earth," the context depicts them as being, not on earth, but in heaven with the heavenly Lamb, Christ Jesus.(Rev 14:3,4)' (Insight on the Scriptures Volume 1 Page 996. WTB&TS 1988)

    'How can the 144,000 sing "before" the elders, since the 24 elders are the 144,000 in their glorious heavenly position?... The remnant of the 144,000 still on earth are therefore singing the new song before, or in the sight of, their resurrected brothers in heaven.' (Revelation Its Grand Climax At Hand! Page 201.WTB&TS 1988)

    I couldn't understand this.

  • nibbled

    Good morning all! Sunny happy day to you, I hope!

    Pterist I was hoping when I woke this morning I would better grasp what you're saying. I'm sipping the first of my cappcuccino, maybe comprehension will be restored soon... for now, forgive my clumsy, but as I understand you believe...

    • The New Creation ended at 70CE with the destruction of Jerusalem?
    • All spiritual darkness and Babylons have already been banished and now people are showering the nations with blessings?

    What's next? How does Nazi concentration camps factor into your belief?

    Can you give me the dummy's version of your thoughts? I think I'm getting jumbled in all the keywords, but I'd really like to understand your 'story'. (I say story because I relate to the world best through story telling, not that stories are all fiction or something!)

    Ucantnome hi there. Took me a second to figure out your name; got it as I typed it out. :)

    I think my brain was numb or something when I was younger and we studied the Revelation book. I don't recall anything from it. Net zero, besides the images are etched in my mind.

    Are you interested in untangling what Revelation really says? I'm looking for folks who have cracked the skullcap and are interested in working through it. Maybe we won't get far, but I've gotten quite aways on my own... PM me if so, please? I'll ask you—do you think that the white horse rider is Christ? Or the false Christs who conquer? It seems Matthew 24 parallels the events of the four horsemen of Revelation in the same order—only the WT teaches that the white horse rider is a different version of [the true] Christ. Thoughts?

  • Pterist

    Nibbled.......After the failed expectations of the WBTS's Pre-millennium type of understanding, beginning within the generation of 1914, I did some research over the past year on the different understandings out there on Post, Pre, Amillenniumism and dispensationalism in general.

    I was very impressed by Partial preterism as a component of amillennial hermeneutics. Christ through his resurrection is bringing about a new creation. This resurrected power gave birth to first fruits at Penticost, and came to power in the heavens in 70 AD after the gentile powers ended when they destroyed Jerusalem in 70 AD.

    Romans 11, Rev 7 and 14 shows where these first fruits (initially first century Christians) are elevated to bring blessings to every nation, tongue and people from their great tribulation from Rome, as the new creation, Israel of God further expands through a symbolic millennium of the "church age". The first born congration in the heavens have escaped Babylonian darkness and eartly and spiritual powers as the New Jerusalem is build on them as like when the exiles came home. We join them by being born into this new creation in Christ and escape, Egypt, Babylon, Satan And look to the New Home above. It's still in progress. I believe we are living in the period of rev. 20:1-7 and await rev 20:7-15....

    Shalom ;)

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