How Modern Christianity has failed Christians

by Christ Alone 277 Replies latest watchtower bible

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  mP

  Christ Alone:

  I'm a bit surprised that someone could actually say that Christianity has "never been good". I'm sure even most atheists would reject that statement. But I suppose that if you can't even being yourself to call it Christianity (in favor of xtianity) you are still pretty bitter about it. Hopefully your local hospital is a state or federal one and not a St Johns...

  but here are some things that Christianity has accomplished in our modern age:

  If you wish to debate each and every point im here.

  However i will show how erroneous your points are one at a time. I will start with the simple ones.

  Ministry to young people in our society – YMCA founded in 1844. Nobel Peace Prize winners. John Mott: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Mott http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/YMCA
  Founded by George Williams:
  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Williams_%28YMCA%29

  I fail to see how such a irrelevant club can be counted as having a major impact on humanity. If they teach the BIble to some people, so what ? Are we to say Imams who teach the Koran are somehow making great contribution to humanity ?

  My city has i think one YMCA club and its basically a hostel for back packers. I dont understand what is "good" about the YMCA, they are irrelevant in my country -> Australia.
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  mP

  ChristAlone:

  The Church pioneered modern Social Work. Eg: Jane Addams http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_social_work Jane Addams was the first American woman to be awarded the Nobel Peace Prize. Also co-founded the first settlement house in the US. The Settlement Movement sought to bridge the gap between rich and poor in society: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Settlement_house http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jane_Addams

  mP: Sorry I never knew about Jane, but again you are championing her accomplishments as that of the church. She is the hero, the church did not help, your summary says this. Given the size of the church and the relatively small size of "Settlemen house" show that the church did not sponsor her grand work because if they did, then we would find these same organisation all over the world just like the churches are all ove rthe world. The fact she was a good women does not make the church good, just like we cant blame the Roman Catholic church because HItler claimed to be a Catholic. In fact even today the Church is mixed up in pedophilia in every city, town, country around the earth, they hardly are a champion of good today. This cancels out any good will the church might have free laoded from any charity they may perform.
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  mP

  ChristAlone:

  • Save the Children. This large relief agency was founded by Eglantyne Jebb who also campaigned for social reform in this area. The Declaration of the Rights of the Child was adopted by the League of Nations. She also pioneered the Child Sponsorship program. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eglantyne_Jebb

  mP: Again another example of an individual acting alone and not any church. Your confusing individuals who act on their own convictions and the church which is often and almost always very different.
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  Aussie Oz

  sorry cant agree

  the red cross/religious hospitals began as a front of missionary work and a tool to spread the word.

  He began to teach the islanders what he was reading from the Scriptures. Their lives were also changed. The islanders became peaceable, industrious, and more concerned about each other. When the British finally found John Adams, they discovered to their amazement that his teaching had unexpectedly produced a very orderly and moral society.

  This is but one of many examples of how the teachings of the Bible have led uncivilized societies into orderly and loving ways.

  Who says they needed changing? By whose standards were they judged as an immoral chaotic society? Who's standards of industriousness were cultivated? what gave him the right and those who came later the right to declare these people in need of their corrupt vile religion and its so called better standards?

  So they became more peacfull by getting scared to death of hellfire? Christianity can hardly hold a flag high of peacefulness itself yet felt the need and still does, to turn heathens to their cause.

  The teaching of Jesus transforms individuals and nations, not by an appeal to the wealthy, the powerful, or the famous, but by an appeal to the masses of common humanity

  What a load of rubbish! Look at the state of the christianized nations of the world and their legacy. In 2000 years they have not transformed the world into anything remotely like what 'Jesus' taught.

  Not going to debate with you, we will not see eye to eye!

  oz
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  mP

  Friedrich Wilhelm August Fröbel (or Froebel) (April 21, 1782 – June 21, 1852) laid the foundation for modern education based on the recognition that children have unique needs and capabilities. He developed the concept of the “kindergarten” , and also coined the word now used in German and English.
  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friedrich_Fr%C3%B6bel

  mP:
  There have been schools for kids long before this, look up your history books in place like Greece. Even the BIble tells us Jesus while a child went to talk w/ the elders about stuff. Obviously this custom of teaching and edcation has been a part of Judaism long before xianity.

  If you look in Pauls writings he says that women are too stupid to learn and should be quite in church. I cant recall the scripture but its easy to find if you dont believe me. Thanks Paul for degrading women for 2000 years. Think how much better humanity would be if this crap was not included in the Bible. We would have had equality for the sexes 2000 years earlier if he wrote the honourable thing.
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  Phizzy

  A lot of the "good Works" listed by C.A are trying to undo the harm done by the Christian culture in the past.

  Such work, laudable for its accomplishments as it may be, is no recomendation for "Christianity".

  "Christian" Governments , Christian subjugators of the poor and/ or the inhabitants of new lands, who they simply plundered for their own benefit,have a lot to answer for.

  The present plight of the Native American is an example.
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  mP

  ChristAlone

  • The Church is the largest single provider of healthcare and education in the world, working especially in some of the poorest countries where there is no other care available. (Catholic church that is. Adding Evangelical church schools/hospitals means there is no close second provider.)
  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Role_of_the_Catholic_Church_in_Western_civilization#Education

  mP:

  How many kids are these same priests raping ?

  Im sorry if we examine shear numbers, Queen Elizabeth and her governments give more healthcare by such a wide margin its not funny.

  Australia, NZ, Canada, UK and in the rest of her dominions get amazing healthcare for next to free. World class hospitals, medicine and more for free or at minimal cost which amounts to tens or hundreds of billions. I cant see the Catholic church spending a fraction of that in total for the world.
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  mP

  Christ:

  • Pioneering free or low cost health care for the terminally ill in our society dying of cancer.
  Macmillan nurses. Douglas Macmillan.
  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Douglas_Macmillan http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macmillan_Cancer_Support#History
  Rose Hawthorne Lathrop created the first homes/treatment centers for cancer patients in the US. St. Rose's Free Home for Incurable Cancer
  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rose_Hawthorne_Lathrop

  mP: You should look outside America, you dont realise how blind you are. Only a fool would believe the above exaples are real firsts. There have been homes for the sick for thousands of years in many societies. People have cared for the old and sick for longer than written records.

  Queen Elizabeth and her governments give free medicine, hospitals in many of her lands. THis amounts of over a hundred million people getting world class health for free. Id like to see any or all churches beat or even try and come close.
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  mP

  ChristAlone:

  • Frank Laubach. Committed Christian and pioneer of world literacy. Known as the “Apostle to the Illiterates” the programs he developed have been used to teach about 60 million people to read their own language. He was deeply concerned about poverty, injustice and illiteracy, and considered them barriers to peace in the world. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frank_Laubach mP: Again individuals not the church. If the church was involved this number would be much larger, after all the Cahtolics etc are in all poor nations and yet this program is not. This shows this program is not inspired, backed or actively part of any church.
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  mP

  ChristAlone:

  • Impact on civil liberties
  The Magna Carta is considered one of the most important documents in human history; vitally important as an early foundation of law in Western society. It is considered the founding document of English liberties and hence American liberties. The influence of Magna Carta can be seen in the United States Constitution and the Bill of Rights. Lord Denning described it as "the greatest constitutional document of all times – the foundation of the freedom of the individual against the arbitrary authority of the despot". The man responsible for drafting it's content was Stephen Langton (Archbishop of Canterbury). Various "Barons" were also implicated in the construction of the Magna Carta, but Stephen Langton is believed to be the central architect.
  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephen_Langton
  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magna_Carta

  mP:

  You have twisted a lot. Telling us what we already know about the Magna Carta, does not in anyway show this to be the handy work of the church.. Your own text uses belief , which is not the same as a fact.

  Examine history honestly and you will find it has been part of the political establishment enslaving the masses literally. The sooner the church fades the country makes real progress. In fact even up until the 1800s the church was one of the biggest opponents of abolishment. Where is your human right there ?