My take on the replacement letter is that it's designed to shield them from liability. If they find out about child abuse, they call legal "immediately" according to the directions, and legal tells them whether they have to report it or not. If they do have to report, they will do so and thus be shielded from liability, and if they don't have to report based on state law, they can't be held liable for failure to do so in that state. As long as legal gives them accurate advice, it should make them legally bulletproof on the reporting front, except maybe in the unlikely scenario that someone is molested in the interim while they are getting legal advice. Regarding the warrant/subpoena issue, anyone is entitled to call their lawyer before complying with a subpoena. Same thing with a search warrant. They are advised not to physically stop officers with a search warrant, but to otherwise object to a search and call legal. Similarly, anyone in the U.S. has a right to refuse to consent to a warrantless search and to seek legal advice. No court can allow liability to be imposed for exercising one's legal rights.
Long Term Effect of Conti & Similar Cases?
by Chaserious 48 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
If erosion gives way ( like major 20/20 coverage in the near future).. there will be an "huge chunk" that will without question be un repairable........
But in my case, from what I can see so far from other forums and my family, JW's who have taken note say........" GB may have fallen apostate, but we'll wait on JA".......
On the other hand there are those who are on the brink of walking away from the WTS......
Yep, it's all about protecting themselves. I suppose later the 8 year old that was molested over several years can latch onto a WT mag when she grows up.
For me its psychological, and it's all about the "Long Term Effect"...
"It's like throwing mud at a white fence, it may not stick, but it does leave a mark..."
The white washed image of Watchtower is getting very, very stained. More and more people have reason to throw something at the perfect white picket fence surrounding the WT. It was the policy of the organization for years to pretend this stuff didn't happen, "not in our religion" and if it did, "wait on Jehovah" and "don't bring reproach on Jehovah's name"...
It happened so many times. I don't care what the testimony of WT service dept. heavies say...The policy was to cover it up. The pretense will undermine them, NOW THEY ARE THE ONES BRINGING AMPLIFIED REPROACH ON JEHOVAH'S NAME...Who want's to worship a god whose policy it is to ignore the abuse of children so his name doesn't get reproached? A god who seems to be more concerned with is reputation than a childs present welfare and future mental and emotional stability... That's a very selfish, insecure god. Or, its men who wanted Armegeddon to come before they had to deal with it. Its so stupid.
The decline will be in the alleginece the rank and file have for the organization. What was once infallible is obviously not. What was once unquestioned is now under suspicion. Any witness who has to answer for this at the door is going to be embarrassed and ashamed. They can spin it however they want, but everyone abhors child abuse. Anyone who knows about it, and does nothing is so grossly irresponsible it makes me want to vomit. Elders who just followed the direction of "the Society" need to have their "qualifications" questioned. I don't care if you lose your "position of privilege" in the congregation, BE A MAN AND PROTECT THE CHILD! How does a man look him self in the mirror if he is aware of a child getting sexually, physically or in any other way abused and all he did about it was bravely MAKE A PHONE CALL TO BROOKLYN, N.Y.?
This is just one of many things coming down. The doctrine changes (overlapping generations, the Sleek new GB/FDS, a GB member in his 40's hahaha! Using Satan's Internet for Good News) are being questioned, openly. This NEVER happened in the past, that I know of. People want answers. Many have figured out that "The End" is not likely coming tomorrow. And are looking at life differently. It makes me wonder if they got this SO wrong for SO long what else do they have wrong?
When the people leave the money dries up. Whether it's mentally checking out (which many have done) or physically not showing up.
Candace, you are a hero. You have been fighting for a long time and will continue to fight. Thank You. No one will understand what you went through unless they have to endure it. That this was taken to court, and you had to relive your tragedy in front of so many people is deplorable. That the 'compassionate, loving shepherds' of the WT did not say "We are so sorry. We can't change it, but what can we do to help you now?" but fought you in court is, well, what happened and it exposes this organization for what it is. Very imperfect men, pretending God is behind their every move.
The WTS will likely never dry up completely. Too many people need the illusion. But for those with enough insight and thinking ability left to question, the decline has already happened. The Governing Body are no longer the enlightened, spirit directed group they said they were, the Elders are just men following orders and the rest have been lulled to stupor because someone else has done all the thinking for them for so long.
Think of it this way: Does an elder who doesn't care enough to ignore the wrong direction from Brooklyn in order to protect an innocent child really care when making shepherding call? He's just going through the motions. Just like the rest of them. Gnawing on their ball of Prozac, waiting for a future life instead of living the one they have.
When the seed of doubt starts to grow, it's hard to kill.
Chaserious: As long as legal gives them accurate advice, it should make them legally bulletproof on the reporting front, except maybe in the unlikely scenario that someone is molested in the interim while they are getting legal advice
What makes you think this is an unlikey senario?
The changed policy does nothing to address the rights of the victims. The two-witness rule stands, and so on. It is self-protective only, which is not protective of public opinion.
Consider also that the wider world is watching, and takes these things seriously. Might it be ever harder, for instance, to find new recruits from the public? After all, how can they defend that they are keeping the congregation "clean"? A whitewashed vessel comes to mind.
Consider also that the wider world is watching, and takes these things seriously
Yup. Once upon a time, dubs were considered diligent in their beliefs. A little odd, but harmless. They were just people.
Now the coo coo factor comes up alot. Families separated by made up rules. Strange beliefs about the political system. The blood issue gets nuttier. I can't imagine what studies have to swallow now in these new crazy bible interpretations of an overlapping generation. Or cases like this hitting the news. Can u put yourself in a persons mind who just read that elders threatened the victims with disfellowshipping. These people really look crazy on the outside now
Fed-up: I imagine it's unlikely because if the elders follow the directions and call WT immediately, I would think they are put right through to a lawyer or get a call back within hours, and if they have a legal duty to report are told to contact the police as soon as hanging up with legal. This would seem to take minutes or hours; not a lot of time for more molestation to take place. This involves a bit of speculation, but since money is on the line I would bet legal moves very quickly on these phone calls, don't you think?
Chaserious:" if they have a legal duty to report are told to contact the police as soon as hanging up with legal..."
The legal duty vs. the moral obligation.
The problem is taking it to the Elders at all. This is a completely unnecessary step. If they are told BY LEGAL they do not have the legal duty to report it, what happens to the child. The Elder is still aware of the suspected abuse. If there are not two witnesses to the abuse, and there seldom are, do the Elders even acknowledge it has taken place?
Many abusers abuse more than one child. If that person isn't stopped, by people trained to deal with them, they are a threat to every child around them.
if they have a legal duty to report are told to contact the police as soon as hanging up with legal
and this is where it just breaks down. Dubs rarely feel a moral obligation to anyone outside their nutty religion, if the religion may be harmed in some way. Even if due to its own actions