Lest we forget the religious right's view of today's tragedy.... (page 4)

Cagefighter

Entirelypossible....you are making my point. Most of us functional Christians, Atheists, or JWs have "figured it out" There probably is no hell, and it's probable God is indifferent at best so it's up to us to keep the cheese on the proverbial cracker.

For those that have not figured it out yet.... Herion, fundamentalist religion, excessive masturbation...I don't care as long as the dumbass is only hurting himself that's fine by me. It makes you wonder if society has tolerated things like religion and drugs in order to keep these types occupied and destroying themselves instead of taking a room of children with them. I think that is the line of a lot of people's thinking this weekend.

We live in a society where we increasingly recognize Anyone's right to do whatever they want, whenever they want as opposed to valuing being a good citizen, getting in line, and doing your job i.e. Japan. The problem is that some will always see a guy in CO smoking a joint, a lesbian couple getting married in Maine, and in the crazy's twisted mind they think hell ya I should be able to do what I really want to as well. We don't put any guardrails on society anymore and everyone is a f*ckin victim if they don't get what they want in the next five minutes. We have become a nation of spoiled children. Instead of handling these issues like grown up we act like children about it and the loonies just watch and figure it's their turn to make some kind of point. It's no wonder we have people flying over the cliff.

We have to find some balance in our values as a culture between personal liberty and good citizenship.

EntirelyPossible

He used to have the Israelites march in and do the killing for him.....

designs

The Cannanites were probably early Bronze Age Democrats...

EntirelyPossible

Wait a minute... I'm a Democrat....

NewChapter

"If we don't believe that, then we don't fear that."

It disturbs me that the only thing holding Huckabee back from mass murder is fear of judgement. Let's keep an eye on him!

What about that judgement? All children go to Heaven, correct? If the shooter held some nonsense notion like this, in his illness, he could have twisted this around and not seen it as actually ending these young lives. It has happened before. Especially with children.

A non-atheist was so upset when he learned that my brother was an atheist he blurted out, "Well why don't you just eat your own children!" This prompted a workmate to tell the guy that if the only thing preventing him from eating his children was church, then he had much bigger problems than my brother. But the thing is, my brother doesn't have any children, so we really can't test the hypothesis.

My opinion is that god-belefs often complicate mental illness. I know it fed my own depression. When I was a child, a neighbor was in league with Christ when she bashed a bottle over her husband's head as he walked up the stairs. I believe she shouted, "Now, Jesus, Now!" and then brought the bottle down. He was fine. It took 6 police officers to take her in.

Or there are times when voices and visions are dismissed as messages from a god, rather than a sign of possible mental illness. This happened to a friend of mine. She went to a church that encouraged this kind of thing, but for her, it was profound mental illness. They messed her up pretty bad and she ended the delusion with a very long (VERY long) hospital stay.

I have noticed an increase in school violence since we abandoned the one-room school house. I think this is the real issue. Then the girls came along and started wearing pants to school. All hell broke out after that. Then those damn computers were introduced, and the violence grew.

Huckabee and his ilk are idiots. The less political power they have, the better. Unfortunately, large pockets of American buy this crap. It does nothing but cheapen our collective grief and use misplaced blame to further his own agenda, and to stroke his confirmation bias but good. Oh, how they love and nurture their confirmation biases. Tell a woman in the 1600's that prayer and god reduce violence! Tell her children.

An absolutely ridiculous and depraved thing to say. I'm sure FOX viewers ate it up.

NewChapter

The problem is that some will always see a guy in CO smoking a joint, a lesbian couple getting married in Maine, and in the crazy's twisted mind they think hell ya I should be able to do what I really want to as well. We don't put any guardrails on society anymore and everyone is a f*ckin victim if they don't get what they want in the next five minutes. We have become a nation of spoiled children. Instead of handling these issues like grown up we act like children about it and the loonies just watch and figure it's their turn to make some kind of point. It's no wonder we have people flying over the cliff.

What the hell are you talking about? Did you just say "a lesbian couple getting married in Maine" led to this? Blame the gays? You think that people being able to live their lives normally and as full citizens is spoiled and not enough guard rails? I am surprised at you. You are blaming the normal behavior of some for the irrational behavior of others?

Well, people drive cars all the time, and allowing such a thing just encourages some crazy person to take it a step further and use one to plow into the neighbors house! For someone that was making a point about being grown-ups, you have just suggested that we 'child-proof' the nation to accomodate a few of our loons. I am stunned.

Cagefighter

No, NC. Good try though of trying to pick a sound byte from my posting like it's a MSNBC show.

However, I am clarifying Huckabees point for those inclined to shut their ears, point the finger, and scream "Poo-poo head" like 5 yearolds on a playground as soon as anyone remotely conservative opens their mouth.

Huckabee feels that a lack of values and societial standards have led to an environment that makes it easier for the loonies to rationalize this kind of behaviour not harder!

We got no problem enticing Children to be good with Santa, why not keeping the really borderline personality types in line with a little bit of hell. You are free to agree or disagree, welcome to America. You have to remember there are a lot of people in this country that are still children mentally.

I personally see it as a point worthy of consideration. There are plenty of people that didn't believe in Hell or religion through out the history of this country and planet. We just kind of keep quiet most of the time hoping it keeps the crazies from doing anything incredibly stupid, like uhhhhh shooting up an elementary school.

I would love to go back and forth...but I am out the door to put a $20 in the plate at my local UMC church knowing that money will help teach some kids right and wrong, good and bad since no one else appears to be doing it. Even though, I don't believe in God... Religion is just a necessary evil sometimes.

Regardless, if you agree with Huckabee or not. His comments are sincere is my point and should be treated as such. I sure as hell am treating anti-gun folks arguments as sincere this morning. The mental children in our society can't make sense of the Glenn Beck's and Rachel Maddow's of the world like we can. It just confuses them an if they don't have a solid base ends tragically too often.

NewChapter

Really, if a parent is using the threat of Santa to make their children mind, then they have bigger problems. But I'll move past that for a moment. You suggested that marriage equality, legalizing marijuana represents some kind of break down and people take it as a cue to shoot a school room full of chiildren. This is ridiculous. I did not quote mine. I posted your entire paragraph which was completely in line with the tone of your entire post. That somehow, giving people rights will cause others to think they can commit mass murder.

AND you argued that fear of hell can keep them in line. Prove it.

I can point to many secular societites that are not only much less violent than ours, but a great deal happier. Liberal societies where people don't worry about 'stumbling' their weakest link. Your argument is an old and tired one. 'Legalize birth control, and women will all become hopeless prostitutes with no way of regulating their behavior without the fear of pregnancy.' Allow for marriage equality and soon people will be into beastiality.'

Your argument is that we should deny normal people their rights because an abnormal person will take it as a cue to kill people. Well allow me to argue that perhaps a repressive society aggravates mental illness and increases violence. Perhaps telling people they are hellbound makes them feel like they are evil and without hope.

Adults shouldn't watch rated R movies, cuz maybe that will make the kids watch rated R movies. We should all sit around watching Barney and cater to the most vulnerable around us? Makes no sense at all.

EntirelyPossible

However, I am clarifying Huckabees point for those inclined to shut their ears, point the finger, and scream "Poo-poo head" like 5 yearolds on a playground as soon as anyone remotely conservative opens their mouth.

Well, calling names is certainly a 5-year old behavior.

Huckabee feels that a lack of values and societial standards have led to an environment that makes it easier for the loonies to rationalize this kind of behaviour not harder!

Huckabee was very specific in what he said. He didn't say any of that.

His comments are sincere is my point and should be treated as such.

Sincerity doesn't make him right.

Billy the Ex-Bethelite

"...why not keeping the really borderline personality types in line with a little bit of hell."

Are you saying that the fear of hell prevented Catholic Hitler from masterminding the slaughter of millions of Catholics in Poland and France? And the rational of "God will sort them out" was what empowered the terrors of the Inquisition.

Your argument is completely devoid of logic.

Lest we forget the religious right's view of today's tragedy....

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