by Malsonilla 71 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
The AA program does not have any compelling evidence to be very effective. There are several alternatives for people who do not accept a "higher power" to get the job done for them and want to take their own responsibility. For me, many of the steps in the 12 step program are pure BS.
http://www.livestrong.com/article/150918-alternatives-to-aa-for-alcoholics/
I see the idea of a 'Higher Power' as an invitation to stop being so self-centered and self-pitying, and listen to what other people have to say, including functional society as a whole. Of course, A.A. is slightly different in athiest Australia.
A.A. is almost free, available locally, and obligation free; it might be the best place to start if your next stop is being locked up...
You get & just for showing up.
whatever it takes. Higher power, no higher power.
I know AA works. It worked for me.
And I know lots of other folks it worked for.
I have seen the Higher power work for atheist and theist.
I have seen Higher powers that were Rocks and higher powers that were Jesus.
ha ha I AM sober. I am not in recovery for anything other than having been born and raised into a religious cult, so let me be perfectly clear: I do not suffer from drug or alcohol addiction.
You dont behave like you are sober. If you are sober why do you even care how others pursue sobriety?
AA works for those who work it. It is like going to the gym. If you have a gym membership, that doesnt make you fit.
You have to eat right and think right and do the routines and then you get fit. AA is the same way. You have to work the program.
Why do I care?
I'm trying to gain insight into the thinking and approach of a friend or two, but look, if you can't explain the "higher power" thing, just say so. You don't have to be such dicks about it. But, hey, it's your delusion and contraddiction. Not mine.
If you are going to get defensive, like most Christians do, when their beliefs are merely questioned, when someone asks you to provide a rational explanation of an important tool asserted to work, a tool that is mandatory you learn to use if you want to be part of the recovery CULTure that is supposed to help a human being deal with and overcome their addiction, there is something irrational and dishonest with either you or the belief system itself or both. I might have a skeptical approach when asking the question, but sincerely, how is this tool useful when owning your own shit? How can you both take responsibility for AND give it over to a higher power that could very well be, for all intents and purposes, a lug wrench? How can you take responsibility for your actions AND admit you are powerless to change those behaviors?
Is it OK to conclude that AA can assert they are not affiliated with any church or religious group because they ARE a religious group? I mean they chant, they gather in a circle, hold hands and pray (even if it is to ruby slipper), and reinforce through dogmatic repetition that you can't effect change in your own life unless you give it over to your higher power . . . your special edition copy of Pinapple Express on dvd.
Are these the same kinds of answers I would get from the drunks and addicts at a meeting should I drop in to ask these questions? Would there be such hostility and resentment?
Your Higher Power can be the doorknob you turn on the way out...
I'LL BE YOUR GOD! SEND MONEY! :D
James Brown, I am sober. I am not saying that i have never been drunk or that I have never taken drugs, but I am saying to you that I am sober and I am not hardwired to be an alcoholic or an addict.
When a newbie comes to this forum who has had a JW come into their life and is asking for insight and information about their beliefs, behaviors, etc., rather than patiently addressing their questions, do you accuse them of being a JW troll? Do you conclude they are way too J-dubby for their questions to be valid and hold them suspect for asking the questions? Stupid. I am not disputing whether AA works for some, I am asking a question about the program itself, not whether or why the big fat old lesbian woman I recently met who has 30 years sober, who fancies herself a meth addict, who admits she only tried meth once . . . 30 years ago . . . but who is now obviously addicted to food . . . and NA meetings . . . is getting results. Clear?
And no, AA is NOT like a gym membership. The personal trainer is not asking another human being to give their muscles over to the god, Nautilus, because they are powerless to build muscle and get fit themselves. They are expected take full responsibility for the results they get with that membership. I've been to both a gym and AA meetings. My father and brother were drunks, and another one of my brothers was an addict, and I have friends who are dealing with addiction . . . which means I am dealing with friends dealing with their addiction. Not easy. So get off your high horse and give a little respect to somone who is trying to find a reason to no kick these emotionally exhausting narcissist asshats to the curb. :)
Malsonilla,
A little off-topic but interesting nonetheless; when some people leave the high control group they find the need for drugs and alcohol dissapates. ;) Shall I send you my address for that check? I require a minimum 10k. One miracle is guaranteed! :D Tell your friends. I WANT MONEY!!!
