I think when it comes to scolding another for posting, then you need to be extra careful. That could be really discouraging for an exiting JW to see.
Okay---I'm done. Apology accepted.
I Still Can't Celebrate Xmas. Can You? Christians vs Atheists
by Malsonilla 46 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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Christ Alone
Touché NC
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unstopableravens
you children play nice lol
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finally awake
This is my first Christmas outside the Borg. Last year we didn't celebrate because we were still coming to terms with our true beliefs and deciding how we wanted to live our life. We had just stopped attending meetings in mid-November 2011. In the past year, I have moved from believing that the WTS has the "Truth" all the way to being an atheist. Right now, I don't believe in any sort of God entity, nor do I even believe that Jesus is a real historical person, nor do I believe that the Bible has any special meaning beyond other pieces of historical literature. I am, however, celebrating Christmas in a big but purely secular way this year. I am not using any overtly religious symbols in my decorations, or attending any religious services, but I intend for my kids to experience a family holiday the way it should have been all along. If other people want to insert Jesus into the pagan winter festival, they are free to do so, but that doesn't make the holiday into something I can't participate in due to lack of religious belief.
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FlyingHighNow
Research will tell you that early Christians placed evergreens in their homes to symbolize eternal life, since evergreens are green through every season. It's JWs who think of God as being petty and demanding that everything has to be exact or it is an evil bad no no. JWs mess up people's lives and steal the joy of living with their legalism.
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WTWizard
There are non-Christian ways to celebrate this day. I simply take Jesus as meaning "the sun". The sun actually "dies" on "the cross" (by settling on the Cross of the Zodiac) and sits there for 3 days before rising again on December 25. The Three Wise Men are actually the stars making the Belt of Orion, and the Star of Bethlehem is actually Sirius. These line up to point to where the sun will rise on December 25. Everything else, including leading them westward (instead of eastward) to Israel is all story.
And findamentalist Christians are always complaining about how Christmas has lost its "original" meaning. Hardly. It always was a festival of shopping, decorating, and enjoying things long before Christ. Back then, they used live candles and open fires for light. These days, we have much safer LED lights. And, there is a lot of fun in going out and exchanging gifts--otherwise, given that it is economically inefficient, it would have died out long ago. People enjoy the foods and sounds of Christmas, including eggnog, peppermints, chocolates, pies, ham, goose, and whatever other things people save for Christmas time.
The only thing I don't recommend is getting too much debt to pay for your Christmas (shopping as you go through the year avoids this, plus much of the stress of last minute hunting for gifts that are out of stock). And of course, I do not recommend drink driving.
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ziddina
As a "Neo-PolyTheist atheist", I celebrate the winter solstice, but often refer to it as "Xmas/Christmas" - it prevents a lot of confusion.
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ziddina
" I would like to see the actual Summer Solstice observance come back strong and true, not cloaked in Christianity..." OP
Not sure which culture's summer solstice celebrations you might be referring to, but I make a LOT of 'sacrifices' of beer and pomegranate juice to Sekhmet during the heat of the summer...
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PSacramento
People can celebrate Christmas for a variety of reasons, religious or non-religious.
The over blown silliness of Christmas "pagan roots" is just iek everything else done by the WT: wrong and grossly misinterpreted.
Christmas has a rich and wonderful traition through out the world, a time of joy and happiness for many.
As a Christian I view it as the day we celebrate the birth of our Saviour and the many wonderful traditions that have coem down to us through the ages from various cultures in regards to that.
I also celebrate Chanukah with some Jewish friends I have.
Any excuse to share and express love and joy for one another.
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PSacramento
Research will tell you that early Christians placed evergreens in their homes to symbolize eternal life, since evergreens are green through every season. It's JWs who think of God as being petty and demanding that everything has to be exact or it is an evil bad no no. JWs mess up people's lives and steal the joy of living with their legalism.
If one does honest research one finds that the traditons we have are very, very much CHristian.
An interesting link:
http://orthocath.wordpress.com/2010/12/05/the-pagan-origins-of-christmas/
A link about Christmas trees:
In Defense of the Christmas Tree
By Fr. Daniel Daly
Several years ago during the Christmas season, a religious program on television caught my attention. The program featured a discussion on the dangers of cults, especially to young people. I found myself agreeing with the panelists as they warned young people about the hazards of involvement in occult or “new age” spirituality.During the interview, however, one participant made a statement that shocked me.
“…and the Christmas tree is pagan too…,”
he asserted. The Christmas Tree? Pagan? Could it be that something most of us enjoy so much might be actually pagan in origin? Despite its growing commercialization, the Christmas tree is still associated with the fondest memories of our early childhood. Who does not remember approaching the tree on Christmas morning?
Today people are so captivated by it that some even put it up in November! It finds a place in the homes of believers and unbelievers alike.
Most people are aware that the Christmas tree came to America with immigrants from Germany, but just where did the Christmas tree originate? Are its origins to be found in paganism, as the speaker suggested?
The Christmas tree does not date from early Germanic times. Its origins are to be found in a tradition that has virtually disappeared from Christianity, the Liturgical Drama. In the Middle Ages liturgical plays or dramas were presented during or sometimes immediately after the services in the churches of Western Europe. The earliest of these plays were associated with the Mysteries of Holy Week and Easter. Initially they were dramatizations of the liturgical texts. The earliest recorded is the Quem quaeritis (“Whom do you seek?”) play of the Easter season. These plays later developed into the Miracle and Morality plays. Some were associated with events in the lives of well-known saints. The plays were presented on the porches of large churches. Although these liturgical dramas have now virtually disappeared, the Passion Play of Oberammergau, Germany is a recent revival of this dramatic form.
One mystery play was presented on Christmas Eve, the day which also commemorated the feast of Adam and Eve in the Western Church. The “Paradise Play” told the well-known story of Adam and Eve in the Garden of Paradise. The central “prop” in the play was the Paradise Tree, or Tree of Knowledge. During the play this tree was brought in laden with apples.
The Paradise Tree became very popular with the German people. They soon began the practice of setting up a fir tree in their homes. Originally, the trees were decorated with bread wafers commemorating the Eucharist. Later, these were replaced with various kinds of sweets. Our Christmas tree is derived, not from the pagan yule tree, but from the paradise tree adorned with apples on December 24 in honor of Adam and Eve. The Christmas tree is completely biblical in origin.
The first Christmas tree dates from 1605 in Strasbourg. By the 1700s the custom of the Christmas tree was widespread among the German people. It was brought to America by early German immigrants, and it became popular in England through the influence of Prince Albert, the German husband of Queen Victoria.
The use of evergreens at Christmas may date from St. Boniface of the eighth century, who dedicated the fir tree to the Holy Child in order to replace the sacred oak tree of Odin; but the Christmas tree as we know it today does not appear to be so ancient a custom. It appears first in the Christian Mystery play commemorating the biblical story of Adam and Eve.
How legitimate is it to use a fir tree in the celebration of Christmas? From the very earliest days of the Church, Christians brought many things of God’s material creation into their life of faith and worship, e.g., water, bread, wine, oil, candles and incense. All these things are part of God’s creation. They are part of the world that Christ came to save. Man cannot reject the material creation without rejecting his own humanity. In Genesis man was given dominion over the material world.
Christmas celebrates the great mystery of the Incarnation. In that mystery God the Word became man. In order to redeem us, God became one of us. He became part of His own creation. The Incarnation affirms the importance of both man and the whole of creation. “For God so loved the world…”
A faith which would seek to divorce itself from all elements of the material world in search for an absolutely spiritual religion overlooks this most central mystery of Christmas, the mystery of God becoming man, the Incarnation.
“The Word became flesh and dwelt among us.”
Enjoy your Christmas tree.
