by cofty 148 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
tornapart, most subjects have been done to death here. But it's always cool to get different perspectives from posters that did not post on previous threads.
Anyone that likes designing graphs: It would be a cool project to see the amount of threads on particular subjects in relation to others. What topic is spoken of most? 1975? New Light? Child Abuse? Politics? Christ Alone's awesomeness?
Jesus the Man did NOT exist untill his was conceived and born.
The Son of God, the divine Logs as per the GOJ was through whom ALL was created, He was co-eternal with the Father ( existing before time as we know it).
Through His Human birth and incarnation, Man and God were reconciled in ONE Being, Christ.
It is important to understand the difference between something created ( does NOT have the nature of who creates it) and something begotten-born of ( has the same nature).
V- you have to seperate out all of the communities, look up the Ebionites and other Jews who stayed Torah observant even though they thought Jesus was the Messiah. (Being Torah observant is one of the requirements for Jew and the very 'human' Messiah and it is to continue forever in Jewish belief). Paul went off the reservation so to speak with his ideas.
<<Paul went off the reservation so to speak with his ideas.>>
OK Designs, but what about the apostles? Did they go off the res as well in your understanding?
Where are the Torah observant Jews today who think Jesus was the Messiah, but not divine and entitled to worship?
dear PSacramento...
mankind is a creation of God...the humanness of God the Son came from a creation of God...Mary.
dear Christ Alone...
you said: "But did Jesus exist as God before man was created? Yes! Jesus existed "in the beginning". John 1:1. This would be before everything else, including man."...john 1:1 says the Word existed before all things...it doesn't say that Jesus the Man existed before all things. Yes!...God the Son...the Word existed before all things but the flesh Man, Jesus came into being within the creation.
if you are saying that Jesus existed in the flesh before the creation (NOT just the notion of the Son's eventual incarnation as Jesus) then how do you reconcile that idea with the statement of God's nature..."God is Spirit"?
love michelle
Nothing can be certain about the Apostles because the Eastern Orthodox and Church of Rome were involved in the NT Canon. Look at the times in the Gospels where Jesus says to the Jews their house is abandoned or the Torah will be replaced- that is Jewish apostacy. There are just to many mistakes in the 4 Gospels and the Pauline Epistles with regards to Judaism, big red flags, and for centuries Rabbis tried to work with Christian Bishops to correct the errors but to little avail.
Example of one of the most horrific errors- 'His blood be upon us'
Talk to a Rabbi about that one.
if you are saying that Jesus existed in the flesh before the creation (NOT just the notion of the Son's eventual incarnation as Jesus) then how do you reconcile that idea with the statement of God's nature..."God is Spirit"?
OK! No, I'm not saying that at all. Like I said, I don't know of anyone that believes that Jesus was a man before the incarnation. Are there people that believe that? I think we're both on the same page here.
If you took just the statement 'the Son and the Spirit proceed from the Father' from the Eastern Orthodox most JWs would probably buy off on it.
christ alone : its always fun when you write something and someone thinks you mean something different.
christ alone : its always fun when you write something and someone thinks you mean something different.
Happens all the time. Two people arguing with each other over the exact same point. Then there is the awkward point when we realize..."We both agree..."
